Learning PHP

Pavel Lepin wrote:
> Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> wrote in
> <Goydnb86ofrT1l3bnZ2dnUVZ_jmdnZ2d@comcast.com>:
>> Pavel Lepin wrote:
>>> David Gillen <Belial@RedBrick.DCU.IE> wrote in
>>> <slrnfc0dq2.h3v.Belial@murphy.redbrick.dcu.ie>:
>>>> Godfather said:
>>>>> Please Show me the best way to learn PHP in 1 week.I
>>>>> want to manage a group of PHP Programmers.
>>>>>
>>>> You don't need to know any PHP to be a manager. In fact
>>>> I think most programmers would prefer it if their
>>>> manager didn't think they knew how to code.
>>> I must disagree. The best project manager I've ever
>>> worked under was actually a very capable programmer
>>> himself--and that showed. On the other hand, he also was
>>> extremely good at refraining from backseat driving, so
>>> there is something to the idea that good managers don't
>>> tinker with gizmos and whatchamacallits, no matter how
>>> good or bad at tinkering they are.
>> There's a huge difference between a manager and a project
>> manager.
>
> Point.
>
>> A project manager needs to know the languages involved. A
>> manager is an administrative person and needs much less
>> technical knowledge.
>
> I'm fairly certain the OP was talking about a project
> manager/team leader position, though. Real pointy-haireds
> don't manage PHP programmers IME, they manage 'stuff'.
>

I just took him at his word when he said he was going to manage
programmers. Project managers generally manage projects.

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================

Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> wrote in
<4-6dncfVZPDU_13bnZ2dnUVZ_rDinZ2d@comcast.com>:
> Pavel Lepin wrote:
>> Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> wrote in
>> <Goydnb86ofrT1l3bnZ2dnUVZ_jmdnZ2d@comcast.com>:
>>> Pavel Lepin wrote:
>>>> David Gillen <Belial@RedBrick.DCU.IE> wrote in
>>>> <slrnfc0dq2.h3v.Belial@murphy.redbrick.dcu.ie>:
>>>>> Godfather said:
>>>>>> Please Show me the best way to learn PHP in 1 week.I
>>>>>> want to manage a group of PHP Programmers.
>>>>>>
>>>>> You don't need to know any PHP to be a manager. In
>>>>> fact I think most programmers would prefer it if their
>>>>> manager didn't think they knew how to code.
>>>> I must disagree. The best project manager I've ever
>>>> worked under was actually a very capable programmer
>>>> himself--and that showed. On the other hand, he also
>>>> was extremely good at refraining from backseat driving,
>>>> so there is something to the idea that good managers
>>>> don't tinker with gizmos and whatchamacallits, no
>>>> matter how good or bad at tinkering they are.
>>
>>> A project manager needs to know the languages involved.
>>> A manager is an administrative person and needs much
>>> less technical knowledge.
>>
>> I'm fairly certain the OP was talking about a project
>> manager/team leader position, though. Real pointy-haireds
>> don't manage PHP programmers IME, they manage 'stuff'.
>
> I just took him at his word when he said he was going to
> manage programmers.

By your reasoning he's aspiring to be a 'programmer
manager', not a 'manager', since managers wouldn't manage
anyone or anything in particular; they would manage
intransitively, just for the heck of it (and that's pretty
much what I said anyway).

> Project managers generally manage projects.

Probably a misnomer. I don't believe guinea pigs have
anything to do with Guinea. Or pigs. Seriously though, I'm
not sure what the general practices in this respect are,
but from my experience project managers manage projects,
programmers, various other allocated resources, customer
communications and whatever else might be in the way of
their fanatical devotion to the Pope; while senior-level
managers, those that go without additional qualifiers in
front of their M.'s, tend to just keep an eye on everything
unless things start looking really grim, in which case they
just invoke their built-in
Yell-Cut-Fire-Downsize-Pass-Buck-Cover-Ass module.

--
"Patience is a minor form of despair, disguised as
virtue." -- Ambrose Bierce

Pavel Lepin wrote:
> Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> wrote in
> <4-6dncfVZPDU_13bnZ2dnUVZ_rDinZ2d@comcast.com>:
>> Pavel Lepin wrote:
>>> Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> wrote in
>>> <Goydnb86ofrT1l3bnZ2dnUVZ_jmdnZ2d@comcast.com>:
>>>> Pavel Lepin wrote:
>>>>> David Gillen <Belial@RedBrick.DCU.IE> wrote in
>>>>> <slrnfc0dq2.h3v.Belial@murphy.redbrick.dcu.ie>:
>>>>>> Godfather said:
>>>>>>> Please Show me the best way to learn PHP in 1 week.I
>>>>>>> want to manage a group of PHP Programmers.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> You don't need to know any PHP to be a manager. In
>>>>>> fact I think most programmers would prefer it if their
>>>>>> manager didn't think they knew how to code.
>>>>> I must disagree. The best project manager I've ever
>>>>> worked under was actually a very capable programmer
>>>>> himself--and that showed. On the other hand, he also
>>>>> was extremely good at refraining from backseat driving,
>>>>> so there is something to the idea that good managers
>>>>> don't tinker with gizmos and whatchamacallits, no
>>>>> matter how good or bad at tinkering they are.
>>>> A project manager needs to know the languages involved.
>>>> A manager is an administrative person and needs much
>>>> less technical knowledge.
>>> I'm fairly certain the OP was talking about a project
>>> manager/team leader position, though. Real pointy-haireds
>>> don't manage PHP programmers IME, they manage 'stuff'.
>> I just took him at his word when he said he was going to
>> manage programmers.
>
> By your reasoning he's aspiring to be a 'programmer
> manager', not a 'manager', since managers wouldn't manage
> anyone or anything in particular; they would manage
> intransitively, just for the heck of it (and that's pretty
> much what I said anyway).
>
>> Project managers generally manage projects.
>
> Probably a misnomer. I don't believe guinea pigs have
> anything to do with Guinea. Or pigs. Seriously though, I'm
> not sure what the general practices in this respect are,
> but from my experience project managers manage projects,
> programmers, various other allocated resources, customer
> communications and whatever else might be in the way of
> their fanatical devotion to the Pope; while senior-level
> managers, those that go without additional qualifiers in
> front of their M.'s, tend to just keep an eye on everything
> unless things start looking really grim, in which case they
> just invoke their built-in
> Yell-Cut-Fire-Downsize-Pass-Buck-Cover-Ass module.
>


Well, I've been doing project management for close to 20 years. Most of
that time it's been as a consultant, and I managed the project - not the
people. Sure, I had some input on who worked on the projects, their
performance evaluations, etc. But I was not responsible for their final
evaluations, their paycheck, etc. I could request someone be removed
from a project, but I could not fire them. There were managers to do that.

And even when I was employed as a Project Manager, it was to manage the
project, not the personnel.

Some of the managers had programming experience. I tried to stay away
from them :-). But the best were the ones who had the people experience.

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================

On Aug 13, 1:51 am, Godfather <persian...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Please Show me the best way to learn PHP in 1 week.I want to manage a
> group of PHP Programmers.

If you have to ask, you shouldn't be managing anything! Managers
shouldn't be coding or even advising their programmers on how to code.
I am a man and my best manager was a very intelligent woman who
understood me as a person and understood the technology concepts of
the subject matter she was responsible for. She never logged onto a
server or reviewed code, that wasn't her job. My worst manager was a
male vice president who couldn't keep his hands out of the source
code.

On Aug 13, 2:51 am, Godfather <persian...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Please Show me the best way to learn PHP in 1 week.I want to manage a
> group of PHP Programmers.

Please tell me the best way to learn to speak Texan. I want to be
President some day.