PHP as a strategic BUSINESS language

I had high hopes for it when I started down the path, and was glad to find
this list thinking that it would be a great resource for using PHP to help
solve BUSINESS issues but basically 80% of the questions have nothing to do
with BUSINESS issues but "how do I do X" questions which IMO should NOT be
necessary for a true BUSINESS programming language. Those that aren't in
the 80% are "Tricks/hacks", something to show off and do not represent a
solution to actually make PHP a language that can solve real world problems.

I'll keep it in my toolbox for the simple, quick way to get something to the
inter/intranet but other than that it's not ever going to be a major player
in Real World business solutions.

Good Lick ALL....

On Jul 4, 10:17 pm, scpridean...@gmail.com ("Mark Allen") wrote:
> I had high hopes for it when I started down the path, and was glad to find
> this list thinking that it would be a great resource for using PHP to help
> solve BUSINESS issues but basically 80% of the questions have nothing to do
> with BUSINESS issues but "how do I do X" questions which IMO should NOT be
> necessary for a true BUSINESS programming language. Those that aren't in
> the 80% are "Tricks/hacks", something to show off and do not represent a
> solution to actually make PHP a language that can solve real world problems.
>
> I'll keep it in my toolbox for the simple, quick way to get something to the
> inter/intranet but other than that it's not ever going to be a major player
> in Real World business solutions.
>
> Good Lick ALL....

Ummm, ok. We use it exclusively for our real-world BUSINESS web site
and it works just fine. What exactly are you trying to say? That you
tried to do something but couldn't figure it out? That the only
capabilities of PHP are those expressed in this newsgroup?

Honestly, you can probably solve just about any BUSINESS problem in
any programming language. The language itself is just syntax -- what
you do with it is up to you. There's a big difference between writing
code and software engineering.

Wow. If you're going to be a troll, try and come up with something even
vaguely intelligent to say. :-)

If you want a "language that solves business issues", try COBOL. *snicker*

Programming languages are a tool to logic problems. People solve business
problems using logic. Anyone who claims that the language itself will "solve
your business issues" is selling snake oil.

On Wednesday 04 July 2007, Mark Allen wrote:
> I had high hopes for it when I started down the path, and was glad to find
> this list thinking that it would be a great resource for using PHP to help
> solve BUSINESS issues but basically 80% of the questions have nothing to do
> with BUSINESS issues but "how do I do X" questions which IMO should NOT be
> necessary for a true BUSINESS programming language. Those that aren't in
> the 80% are "Tricks/hacks", something to show off and do not represent a
> solution to actually make PHP a language that can solve real world
> problems.
>
> I'll keep it in my toolbox for the simple, quick way to get something to
> the inter/intranet but other than that it's not ever going to be a major
> player in Real World business solutions.
>
> Good Lick ALL....


--
Larry Garfield AIM: LOLG42
larry@garfieldtech.com ICQ: 6817012

"If nature has made any one thing less susceptible than all others of
exclusive property, it is the action of the thinking power called an idea,
which an individual may exclusively possess as long as he keeps it to
himself; but the moment it is divulged, it forces itself into the possession
of every one, and the receiver cannot dispossess himself of it." -- Thomas
Jefferson

Mark Allen wrote:
> I had high hopes for it when I started down the path, and was glad to find
> this list thinking that it would be a great resource for using PHP to help
> solve BUSINESS issues but basically 80% of the questions have nothing to do
> with BUSINESS issues but "how do I do X" questions which IMO should NOT be
> necessary for a true BUSINESS programming language. Those that aren't in
> the 80% are "Tricks/hacks", something to show off and do not represent a
> solution to actually make PHP a language that can solve real world
> problems.
>
> I'll keep it in my toolbox for the simple, quick way to get something to
> the
> inter/intranet but other than that it's not ever going to be a major player
> in Real World business solutions.
>
> Good Lick ALL....
>

That's a very sweeping statement Mark. I use PHP in my business all the
time and through it, I generally solve many problems.

Perhaps if you've got specific gripes you can post some examples?

Col

hmm I work for a large multinational transporting/logistics company, and
the complete business management/tracking/billing/etc system is written
in PHP... and it is working with almost zero downtime since the last
four or five years... however it does have bugs and flaws in it - but
those are the developers' fault not the language... so I can't imagine
what the hell are you talking about

greets
Zoltán Németh

2007. 07. 4, szerda keltezéssel 22.17-kor Mark Allen ezt Ã*rta:
> I had high hopes for it when I started down the path, and was glad to find
> this list thinking that it would be a great resource for using PHP to help
> solve BUSINESS issues but basically 80% of the questions have nothing to do
> with BUSINESS issues but "how do I do X" questions which IMO should NOT be
> necessary for a true BUSINESS programming language. Those that aren't in
> the 80% are "Tricks/hacks", something to show off and do not represent a
> solution to actually make PHP a language that can solve real world problems.
>
> I'll keep it in my toolbox for the simple, quick way to get something to the
> inter/intranet but other than that it's not ever going to be a major player
> in Real World business solutions.
>
> Good Lick ALL....

Mark Allen wrote:
> I had high hopes for it when I started down the path, and was glad to find
> this list thinking that it would be a great resource for using PHP to help
> solve BUSINESS issues but basically 80% of the questions have nothing to do
> with BUSINESS issues but "how do I do X" questions which IMO should NOT be
> necessary for a true BUSINESS programming language. Those that aren't in
> the 80% are "Tricks/hacks", something to show off and do not represent a
> solution to actually make PHP a language that can solve real world
> problems.
>
> I'll keep it in my toolbox for the simple, quick way to get something to
> the
> inter/intranet but other than that it's not ever going to be a major player
> in Real World business solutions.
>
> Good Lick ALL....

A few points...

* This is a reactive list. The content is usually based upon the
questions being asked. If you have specific issues you need help with,
feel free to ask. We can't read your mind and provide the documentation
you need to "solve [your] BUSINESS issues".

* This is a PHP list, not a BUSINESS logic list (is it important that
BUSINESS is all caps?). If you have problems with PHP we're more than
happy to help. If you need help designing your DB schema to solve your
problem then you should probably be looking elsewhere.

* As a language I see nothing that PHP lacks that would prevent it from
being used in "Real World business solutions" (since when were real and
world nouns?).



-Stut

--
http://stut.net/

I believe that any programming language is what you make of it... if
you use it to write games, it's a games language.... Write webapps
for your business, it's a business language... And this is by far the
best resource I have found for getting answers to questions about
PHP... It's taken a completely newbie to PHP Programming, up to only
a SOMEWHAT newbie in a very short time period.

Anyway... Just My 2¢ :)

On Jul 4, 2007, at 10:17 PM, Mark Allen wrote:

> I had high hopes for it when I started down the path, and was glad
> to find
> this list thinking that it would be a great resource for using PHP
> to help
> solve BUSINESS issues but basically 80% of the questions have
> nothing to do
> with BUSINESS issues but "how do I do X" questions which IMO should
> NOT be
> necessary for a true BUSINESS programming language. Those that
> aren't in
> the 80% are "Tricks/hacks", something to show off and do not
> represent a
> solution to actually make PHP a language that can solve real world
> problems.
>
> I'll keep it in my toolbox for the simple, quick way to get
> something to the
> inter/intranet but other than that it's not ever going to be a
> major player
> in Real World business solutions.
>
> Good Lick ALL....

let's break this down shall we.

1. there is no such thing a business [programming] language
(you can lie through your teeth and sell shit in any language ;-),
although some language may be synonymous with business because of their
frequent use to solve business specific logic problems.

2. business is not as important as you think it is - writing it in
all-caps doesn't make it so either.

3. nowhere has it ever been claimed that this list focuses on business
issues (unless you're talking about the business of writing code in it's own
right, but I don't believe you are)

4. "how do I do X" questions are the basis of any craft - if you're in need
of discussing business issues then that suggests you have questions regarding something,
this essentially comes down to "how do I do X". you seem to consider
that questions posed beginners/intermediates as below your level of expertise,
possibly those that you turn to for answers regarding 'business issues' regard you
in the same fashion?

5. you maybe suffering from some deeply repressed sexual frustrations - given by
the so called freudian slip 'Good Lick', ok it was most like a typo :-)

6. IBM, Oracle and others seem to be less sure about whether php will ever
be a major player in the business solutions arena (often referred to as
'being enterprise ready') ... there may be some way to go in this sense but there
are plenty of people doing their best to make it possible by working on the core
of php and developing frameworks/utilities that are up to the job.

7. if you have a question or issue you would like to discuss why then start
the ball rolling - no one here has a direct link into your head that allows
them to answer questions you have never asked.

8. php is not the answer to everything, just ask my girlfriend.

Mark Allen wrote:
> I had high hopes for it when I started down the path, and was glad to find
> this list thinking that it would be a great resource for using PHP to help
> solve BUSINESS issues but basically 80% of the questions have nothing to do
> with BUSINESS issues but "how do I do X" questions which IMO should NOT be
> necessary for a true BUSINESS programming language. Those that aren't in
> the 80% are "Tricks/hacks", something to show off and do not represent a
> solution to actually make PHP a language that can solve real world
> problems.
>
> I'll keep it in my toolbox for the simple, quick way to get something to
> the
> inter/intranet but other than that it's not ever going to be a major player
> in Real World business solutions.
>
> Good Lick ALL....
>

[snip]
I had high hopes for it when I started down the path, and was glad to
find
this list thinking that it would be a great resource for using PHP to
help
solve BUSINESS issues but basically 80% of the questions have nothing to
do
with BUSINESS issues but "how do I do X" questions which IMO should NOT
be
necessary for a true BUSINESS programming language. Those that aren't
in
the 80% are "Tricks/hacks", something to show off and do not represent a
solution to actually make PHP a language that can solve real world
problems.

I'll keep it in my toolbox for the simple, quick way to get something to
the
inter/intranet but other than that it's not ever going to be a major
player
in Real World business solutions.

Good Lick ALL....
[/snip]

I love sweeping generalizations. So I must ask, are C++, SQL, Fortran,
LiSP et.al., strategic BUSINESS languages? Can you put your BUSINESS
logic into Visual Studio or any other IDE and have it produce workable
code? (Clarion tried and failed miserably.)

What is a strategic BUSINESS language? Is it a 4GL or 5GL language?
Would we call it sBl? Are you using an sBl now? What is it? How does it
solve BUSINESS issues?

PHP solves real-world problems every day in thousands of businesses
across the globe, in my business alone I can count dozens of real-world
issues that are handled by PHP every hour of every day. Like any other
language properly handled it can be used to build mission-critical
enterprise level business solutions.

BTW, I'll bet that you never return to have a meaningful discussion on
the topic. Would be an interesting discussion and might bear some
valuable fruit, but you will just lurk to see what responses come to
your statements and probably smirk at those with whom you perceive to
have less than your superior, if somewhat short-sided, intellect.
Provide just one real-world business problem example and I am sure that
you will see that this group can apply PHP to format a solution to that
problem. Since you're lurking and will likely not respond I will pose a
real-world BUSINESS problem and you can watch this group arrive at a
solution, likely in a number of ways....

On 05/07/07, Jochem Maas <jochem@iamjochem.com> wrote:

> 6. IBM, Oracle and others seem to be less sure about whether php will ever
> be a major player in the business solutions arena (often referred to as
> 'being enterprise ready') ... there may be some way to go in this sense but there
> are plenty of people doing their best to make it possible by working on the core
> of php and developing frameworks/utilities that are up to the job.

I don't think IBM have much doubts:-

http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/op...jects/php.html

http://www.zend.com/products/zend_co...d_core_for_ibm

Alan

Disclaimer: I work for IBM but these are my own views.