Crossing over to the Darkside?

Hello,

Having used php for a while now and am fairly competent I was persuaded by a
collegue to look into asp.net. I decided to download the free trial of
VS2005 and start with a few tutorials.

I am very suprised how easy things like user auhtentication and form
validation is. Literally in minutes. Even though I have written a similar
script many times for php there is always some tweeking or modifying
required before it fits the project. The asp object model is far superior,
something that PHP developers can't really argue against.

Now I know asp .net is not ideal for all projects but I am now thinking that
there are some projects that would be suited to the use of .net and the
development time would be greatly reduced. I would like to know


-What is planned for the next version of PHP?
-How many of you use both of the technologies?
-What influences your decision when using either ASP, .NET, or PHP


I know people feel very strongly about PHP, however I don't want to start an
argument, just want a decent discussion,


Regards,


R.

On 10/14/06, Ross <ross@aztechost.com> wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> Having used php for a while now and am fairly competent I was persuaded by
> a
> collegue to look into asp.net. I decided to download the free trial of
> VS2005 and start with a few tutorials.
>
> I am very suprised how easy things like user auhtentication and form
> validation is. Literally in minutes. Even though I have written a similar
> script many times for php there is always some tweeking or modifying
> required before it fits the project. The asp object model is far superior,
> something that PHP developers can't really argue against.


That's a bit like saying that apples are better than oranges. PHP and
ASP.NET, while they were designed to server similar, but not identical
purposes, are different tools. PHP is a programming language, but ASP.NET is
a platform, built on the dotNET framework. You could compare something like
CakePHP to ASP.NET, in pretty much the same way as you could compare PHP
itself to C#.


Now I know asp .net is not ideal for all projects but I am now thinking that
> there are some projects that would be suited to the use of .net and the
> development time would be greatly reduced. I would like to know


Unless dotNET is a total absolute piece of crap, them I'm sure there are
some things that are better suited to the ASP.NET than to their PHP
counterpart. I suspect this would be mainly things that integrate with other
MS technologies.


-What is planned for the next version of PHP?
>
Google is good for you.
http://www.corephp.co.uk/archives/19...for-PHP-6.html

-How many of you use both of the technologies?
> -What influences your decision when using either ASP, .NET, or PHP


The first thing it would depend on would be whether I wanted a framework or
a programming language. If I wanted a framework I'd go with ( out of the
above choices ) ASP.NET, where as if I wanted a programming language I'd go
for PHP. Given the choice however, I'd go with a PHP based framework for
websites, unless they had to integrate with windos services.

I don't currently know ASP.NET enough to use it for production purposes,
added to the fact that most of our machines are Solaris, and not Windos.

I know people feel very strongly about PHP, however I don't want to start an
> argument, just want a decent discussion,


You serious? I would never have thought people on the PHP mailing list would
have any interest at all on PHP.

# ross@aztechost.com / 2006-10-14 13:52:50 +0100:
> Having used php for a while now and am fairly competent I was persuaded by a
> collegue to look into asp.net. I decided to download the free trial of
> VS2005 and start with a few tutorials.
>
> I am very suprised how easy things like user auhtentication and form
> validation is. Literally in minutes. Even though I have written a similar
> script many times for php there is always some tweeking or modifying
> required before it fits the project.
>
> The asp object model is far superior,

That's a comparision of code you wrote in PHP with code Microsoft
programmers wrote in C#, and has nothing to do with PHP.

> something that PHP developers can't really argue against.

It's hard to say either way since you didn't show us your code.

Are you aware that you're comparing libraries, not programming
languages? There's a gazillion authentication libraries written
in PHP to choose from if you can't write one yourself.

> Now I know asp .net is not ideal for all projects but I am now
> thinking that there are some projects that would be suited to the use
> of .net and the development time would be greatly reduced.

Well, libraries boost development.

> I would like to know
>
> -What is planned for the next version of PHP?
> -How many of you use both of the technologies?
> -What influences your decision when using either ASP, .NET, or PHP

License.

--
How many Vietnam vets does it take to screw in a light bulb?
You don't know, man. You don't KNOW.
Cause you weren't THERE. http://bash.org/?255991

# neuhauser@sigpipe.cz / 2006-10-14 16:53:34 +0000:
> # ross@aztechost.com / 2006-10-14 13:52:50 +0100:
> > -What influences your decision when using either ASP, .NET, or PHP
>
> License.

Scratch that, TCO is it. License is a mere contributor to TCO.

--
How many Vietnam vets does it take to screw in a light bulb?
You don't know, man. You don't KNOW.
Cause you weren't THERE. http://bash.org/?255991

I agree with Roman and Rory's comments, but I figure I might be able
to add something, so here goes...

On Oct 14, 2006, at 5:52 AM, Ross wrote:

> I am very suprised how easy things like user auhtentication and form
> validation is. Literally in minutes. Even though I have written a
> similar
> script many times for php there is always some tweeking or modifying
> required before it fits the project.

Checkout :
- Zend Studio
- Zend Platform
- Zend Framework
- Dreamweaver

Google search:
- "PHP Framework"
- "PHP library"

Also checkout Ruby on Rails. Last, but not least, search the PHP
mailing list for other available PHP frameworks for leads.

Keep in mind that editors may save you some work, but they often use
a generic approach - bloated code, less efficient code, code that
doesn't meet the specific needs of your project, code that's
difficult to change without fighting the editor, and code that's more
difficult to troubleshoot when you run into problems. Some people
are actually faster when coding manually, but that applies to C# just
as much as it does to PHP.

> The asp object model is far superior,
> something that PHP developers can't really argue against.

On what basis are you saying one is superior? It sounds like you're
still trying to learn the differences between your options in order
to choose which one to focus on. Please list individual reasons for
the superiority that you're talking about and give people a chance to
provide counter arguments or counter examples. Every language,
development platform, and development library has strengths and
weaknesses.

> Now I know asp .net is not ideal for all projects but I am now
> thinking that
> there are some projects that would be suited to the use of .net and
> the
> development time would be greatly reduced.

Sure, but the same thing could be said for PHP and some of it's
available development tools.

> I would like to know
>
>
> -What is planned for the next version of PHP?

In case you're not already checking, you'll have a more balanced
comparison if you also find out what's planned for the next version
of ASP or .NET.

> -How many of you use both of the technologies?

I do. It's more expensive. There's a lot more work in applying
updates. There's also a lot more work to stay current with changes
in technology; Jack of all trades, master of none.

> -What influences your decision when using either ASP, .NET, or PHP

The individual needs of each project. It's usually best to stick
with whatever the customer is using if they already have a large
investment in a particular technology. However, it is sometimes cost
effective to switch if the customer can afford it - Google "PHP
versus ASP" or "PHP versus .NET" for plenty of examples. Google
"Linux versus Windows"; this ties into the debate. Compare the cost
of hiring developers for each of the technologies. Compare the cost
of hosting on Linux versus hosting on Windows. Compare the security
of IIS versus Apache. And, like someone else mentioned, compare your
value in being able to develop on one platform versus your value in
being able to develop for one server platform versus your value in
being able to develop for all of the server platforms that Apache/PHP
work under. I've seen examples of .NET being implemented under UNIX;
they didn't work all that well from what I saw, but researching this
might also add to your pool of knowledge on which direction to go.

-Ed

On Sat, October 14, 2006 7:52 am, Ross wrote:
> I am very suprised how easy things like user auhtentication and form
> validation is. Literally in minutes. Even though I have written a
> similar
> script many times for php there is always some tweeking or modifying
> required before it fits the project. The asp object model is far
> superior,
> something that PHP developers can't really argue against.

It makes the easy things easy, and the hard things harder. :-)

> -What is planned for the next version of PHP?

Google for "PHP 6 Roadmap"
Subscribe to php-internals or read its archives
There's no "secret" path of what's coming down the pike -- More like
wading through tons of arguments, actually. :-)

> -How many of you use both of the technologies?

I used to use ASP -- Never again.
Okay, wait... Yeah, hand me $1,000,000 up-front as a signing bonus,
and I'll consider it. This is not a joke.

> -What influences your decision when using either ASP, .NET, or PHP

If you want to do anything USEFUL in ASP or .NET, you can expect to
pay through the nose, or get nickel and dimed to death for things that
kinda sorta don't really work right, but they're cheap.

> I know people feel very strongly about PHP, however I don't want to
> start an
> argument, just want a decent discussion,

I'm not trying to be argumentative, though it probably sounds that way...

This is simply my real-world experience of ASP.

YMMV

--
Some people have a "gift" link here.
Know what I want?
I want you to buy a CD from some starving artist.
http://cdbaby.com/browse/from/lynch
Yeah, I get a buck. So?

The PHP-based ATK blows away dotNET

http://www.achievo.org/atk