Opinions on Micro$oft .NET

I know this is a little off topic but I really need some help with this.

The company I work for just got bought out by a larger company. The larger company uses .NET from Micro$oft. I of course use all open source stuff for our web sites and now the new company wants to come in and pretty much blow away everything I have done and use their .NET setup.

I've basically got a month to do research and get my guns loaded for what I'm sure will be a heated debate about the Open Source Solution vs the Micro$oft .NET solution. So what I am looking for is personal and professional opinions about both solutions (specifically PHP etc), any and all links to good articles about both solutions giving the pros and cons of both technologies. Any other mailing lists I can get on to get more opinions about the two technologies. Are their any links to show the cost benifits of using Open Source vs Micro$oft .NET? (I know Open Source is free but I have no clue where to find how much .NET is).

As you can see any and everything would be a great help!!!

Thanks a ton!

Hi Jay,

www.asp.net is a good site for learning about the ASP side of .NET, its the
web application side. Basically Visual Basic for the web. .NET is also
C++, C#, J#, and VB .NET. I personally like developing in Visual Studio
..NET, but I donno about for web applications. I use to do ASP for a living,
now I do PHP. In some ways, I liked ASP better, but in a lot of ways, I
like PHP better. Perl was my favorite. I used that at my last position.
Anyhow, that'll get you started. For any mailing lists, go to
msdn.microsoft.com, and sign up for their free newsgroups. They have a
public news server if you don't.

-Dan Joseph

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jay Paulson [mailto:jpaulson@emmisaustin.com]
> Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2003 1:36 PM
> To: php-general@lists.php.net
> Subject: [php] Opinions on Micro$oft .NET
>
>
> I know this is a little off topic but I really need some help with this.
>
> The company I work for just got bought out by a larger company.
> The larger company uses .NET from Micro$oft. I of course use all
> open source stuff for our web sites and now the new company wants
> to come in and pretty much blow away everything I have done and
> use their .NET setup.
>
> I've basically got a month to do research and get my guns loaded
> for what I'm sure will be a heated debate about the Open Source
> Solution vs the Micro$oft .NET solution. So what I am looking
> for is personal and professional opinions about both solutions
> (specifically PHP etc), any and all links to good articles about
> both solutions giving the pros and cons of both technologies.
> Any other mailing lists I can get on to get more opinions about
> the two technologies. Are their any links to show the cost
> benifits of using Open Source vs Micro$oft .NET? (I know Open
> Source is free but I have no clue where to find how much .NET is).
>
> As you can see any and everything would be a great help!!!
>
> Thanks a ton!

Jay Paulson wrote:
> The company I work for just got bought out by a larger company. The larger company uses .NET from Micro$oft. I of course use all open source stuff for our web sites and now the new company wants to come in and pretty much blow away everything I have done and use their .NET setup.


First I'd quit referring to it as Micro$oft if you want to be taken
seriously. You should be professional about this. If the new company
wants to use a .NET solution, then you should begin learning a .NET
language.

If you have a PHP application that should not be converted to .NET, then
you should be able to justify why with facts and figures.

If it's just a matter of you want to use PHP and not .NET, then oh well.
If I were the boss, I'd just let you go if you weren't willing to adapt.

--
---John Holmes...

Amazon Wishlist: www.amazon.com/o/registry/3BEXC84AB3A5E/

PHP|Architect: A magazine for PHP Professionals – www.phparch.com

My 2 Cents

I started in PHP/MySQL learned a bunch, became proficient. And personally
believed that it was the best thing since sliced bread. Did everything
faster cleaner and with less system resources. (Also there was that
independent testing that showed PHP/MySQL outperformed MS by alot, search
the list archive for references)

Then I got a job at a company that was MS based. Network, Intranet and
Internet all Windows based.

I have since had to migrate my skills to .NET and MS SQL. Advantages: All
sorts of document and data sharing Word, Excel, eMail, and various data
sources (SQL, Access, Legacy db and flat text files) all blend with little
or no conflict. (Huge issue with People needing to share MS based documents)

Disadvantages: OS system costs and the hardware issue. Windows based systems
require more RAM/HD to be efficient.

Companies with deeper pockets tend to pick ease of integration over the cost
savings of Open Source.

Bottom Line: Learn to program .NET (including C# and VB.Net) or start
looking for another job.

BTW I still do alot of PHP/MySQL for myself and others, and for others and
believe that for strictly Web Based stuff it is the best option.

Jay Paulson writes:

> I know this is a little off topic but I really need some help with this.
>
> The company I work for just got bought out by a larger company. The larger company uses .NET from Micro$oft. I of course use all open source stuff for our web sites and now the new company wants to come in and pretty much blow away everything I have done and use their .NET setup.
>
> I've basically got a month to do research and get my guns loaded for what I'm sure will be a heated debate about the Open Source Solution vs the Micro$oft .NET solution. So what I am looking for is personal and professional opinions about both solutions (specifically PHP etc), any and all links to good articles about both solutions giving the pros and cons of both technologies. Any other mailing lists I can get on to get more opinions about the two technologies. Are their any links to show the cost benifits of using Open Source vs Micro$oft .NET? (I know Open Source is free but I have no clue where to find how much .NET is).
>
> As you can see any and everything would be a great help!!!
>
> Thanks a ton!

On Thu, 31 Jul 2003 12:35:55 -0500, you wrote:

>I know this is a little off topic but I really need some help with this.
>
>The company I work for just got bought out by a larger company. The larger company uses .NET from Micro$oft. I of course use all open source stuff for our web sites and now the new company wants to come in and pretty much blow away everything I have done and use their .NET setup.
>
>I've basically got a month to do research and get my guns loaded for what I'm sure will be a heated debate about the Open Source Solution vs the Micro$oft .NET solution. So what I am looking for is personal and professional opinions about both solutions (specifically PHP etc), any and all links to good articles about both solutions giving the pros and cons of both technologies. Any other mailing lists I can get on to get more opinions about the two technologies. Are their any links to show the cost benifits of using Open Source vs Micro$oft .NET? (I know Open Source is free but I have no clue where to find how much .NET is).

In my experience, software and hardware costs are nothing. A VS.NET license
costs, what... 2 billed days of programmer time? Maybe 3 or 4 days of web
monkey time. Either way, it's trivial compared to a 5% (and that's a very
conservative estimate) saving in development time over 3 or 4 years use of
the tool.

Having said that, you have to factor in retraining costs. If it takes six
months to get your old programmers up to speed, it's probably easier to
stick with what you know. But in this case... what they know is .NET and
you're the interloper.

If I was management in that situation, I would be looking to reduce costs by
jettisoning the second company's overheads (such as the IT dept), and you're
about to make a massive pain-in-the-ass of yourself because of some dumb
religious issues. Way to go.

If they offer you .NET training grab it with both hands, because it means
they want to keep you around and it makes you more marketable. Remember, if
they already have/can find a .NET developer who knows enough PHP to maintain
legacy code... why even bother to retrain you?

(BTW, if you try to argue PHP v. ASP.NET on technical grounds you're gonna
get steamrollered, IMO. Seriously, look to what's best for you (learning new
skills) and the company you work for (supporting one platform, not two) and
spend your time developing a migration path, not a diatribe).

"You have to be deviant if you're going to do anything new."
- David Lee

Nka wrote:

>On Thu, 31 Jul 2003 12:35:55 -0500, you wrote:
>
>
>
>>I know this is a little off topic but I really need some help with this.
>>
>>The company I work for just got bought out by a larger company. The larger company uses .NET from Micro$oft. I of course use all open source stuff for our web sites and now the new company wants to come in and pretty much blow away everything I have done and use their .NET setup.
>>
>>I've basically got a month to do research and get my guns loaded for what I'm sure will be a heated debate about the Open Source Solution vs the Micro$oft .NET solution. So what I am looking for is personal and professional opinions about both solutions (specifically PHP etc), any and all links to good articles about both solutions giving the pros and cons of both technologies. Any other mailing lists I can get on to get more opinions about the two technologies. Are their any links to show the cost benifits of using Open Source vs Micro$oft .NET? (I know Open Source is free but I have no clue where to find how much .NET is).
>>
>>
>
>In my experience, software and hardware costs are nothing. A VS.NET license
>costs, what... 2 billed days of programmer time? Maybe 3 or 4 days of web
>monkey time. Either way, it's trivial compared to a 5% (and that's a very
>conservative estimate) saving in development time over 3 or 4 years use of
>the tool.
>
>Having said that, you have to factor in retraining costs. If it takes six
>months to get your old programmers up to speed, it's probably easier to
>stick with what you know. But in this case... what they know is .NET and
>you're the interloper.
>
>If I was management in that situation, I would be looking to reduce costs by
>jettisoning the second company's overheads (such as the IT dept), and you're
>about to make a massive pain-in-the-ass of yourself because of some dumb
>religious issues. Way to go.
>
>If they offer you .NET training grab it with both hands, because it means
>they want to keep you around and it makes you more marketable. Remember, if
>they already have/can find a .NET developer who knows enough PHP to maintain
>legacy code... why even bother to retrain you?
>
>(BTW, if you try to argue PHP v. ASP.NET on technical grounds you're gonna
>get steamrollered, IMO. Seriously, look to what's best for you (learning new
>skills) and the company you work for (supporting one platform, not two) and
>spend your time developing a migration path, not a diatribe).
>
>
>
>

On Thursday, July 31, 2003, 9:13:03 PM, John wrote:

JWH> Jay Paulson wrote:
>> The company I work for just got bought out by a larger company. The larger company uses .NET from Micro$oft. I of course use all open source stuff for our web sites and now the new company wants
>> to come in and pretty much blow away everything I have done and use their .NET setup.


JWH> First I'd quit referring to it as Micro$oft if you want to be taken
JWH> seriously. You should be professional about this. If the new company
JWH> wants to use a .NET solution, then you should begin learning a .NET
JWH> language.

I agree completely with the good captain here. Its very unprofessional
to use Micro$oft. You might has well start saying you are "1337"
(don't ask me how long it took me to figure that one out).

Personally, I find that people that tend to hang on to one particular
toolset ... two things happen to them. Either they become extremely
proficient and extremely valuable, or they are yesterday's news. This
is true for just about any computer related language/platform etc.
that I can think of.

I am currently in a situation where I have been hired to develop a few
webservices for a client. At first, I looked at PHP and XML-RPC, since
PHP was what I was programming in currently and it was the freshest
thing in my mind. After reasearching the topic, I found out that _for
my client_ it was better to go with .NET. After considerable reading
at the local technicaly library, a few hundred in books, and a lot of
googling and asking around, I found out the exact pros and cons of
using .NET, and I presented these to my client (during the prelim
stages).

The bottom line is, unless you start thinking in terms of your client
(in this case, your new company) and start to figure out how you can
become a more important asset to them, you will quickly find yourself
(depending on your company), either denied promotions, projects, etc.
.... or in this day and age, you might just get the boot.

As for myself, I am well on my way to learning .NET's webservice
particulars, and finding that C# can be a "Good Thing". I cannot
attest to any performance claims, since my personal projects have been
on the "hello world"-type scale, but alot of reports floating around
on the net suggest that -- with the proper hardware configuration --
..NET-based platforms are quite reliable and speedy.

Just my $0.02 or whatever $0.02 is in euros.

--
Regards,
Burhan Khalid
phplist[at]meidomus[dot]com
http://www.meidomus.com