Re: Networking basic - I want my own IP

Clive Dove <chdove@rogers.com> wrote in message news:<eopRa.92453$sI91.78875@news04.bloor.is.net.c able.rogers.com>...
> steve wrote:
>
> > This may attract some laughs but I am having trouble getting past move
> > 1.
> >
> > I want to set up something like this:
> >
> >
> > network modem
> > Intel Box ---------------- Windoze Box ------------------ ISP
> > --------- -----------
> > Red Hat 7.2 Windows ME
> > Oracle 8i MS Office
> > Oracle clients
> > e.g. Warehouse
> > Builder
> > email client
> > Web browser
> > |
> > |
> > Printer
> > -------
> >
> > All the docs start by saying 'with your IP Address...'
> >
> > The questions are:
> >
> > - I suppose I will need an IP address for both the Linux and Windoze
> > boxes. Can I just make them up or do I have to get them from
> > somewhere?
> > - My ISP uses dynamic IP assignment - I hever know what I will get
> > from one session to the next. If I have already assigned my own IP
> > Address to the MS box, what happens when I go on-line.
> >
> > I'm pretty confused here, I can tell ya.
> >
> > TIA
>

That is a bloody brilliant follow up and thanks to Mark Taylor, too. I
think I get it, or at least it's a good start.

Got a couple more questions...below.

>
> Your Windows box is serving the dual purpose of being a workstation and
> a router/gateway between your local net and the internet.
>
> So the WAN side of the windows box acquires the ip address from the isp
> and the LAN side has an ip address in a private ip range such as
> 192.168.1.x. Addresses in the private range do not appear on the
> internet.
>
> So, if you assign 192.168.1.1 to the windows box and 192.168.1.2 to the
> linux box (and 192.168.1.3 or higher to any additional boxes that you
> may wish to hang on to the net through a hub) then:
> The routing table in the linux box would have 192.168.1.1 as its default
> routing.
>
> The windows box would have the public gateway address assigned by the
> isp as its default route and 192.168.1.1 as its route to the private
> network.
>
> The two ip address ranges are not affected by each other. The router
> software in the windows box performs network address translation.
>
> Of course, as your isp assigns dynamic ip addresses, this does not allow
> you to have a publicly accessible server on the private net, but that
> is contrary to the suthorized use policy anyway.
>
> Your scheme is the reverse of what most people do who use computers as
> routers. Usually they prefer to use a linux box as the router.

That would be my eventual aim. The only reason that I have proposed
this setup is because I regularly use the MS box for on-line work and
the Linux box is, for the moment, an Oracle development setup. In
other words, the MS box - ISP setup works and what ain't broke for the
moment stays put especially as I will be tinkering about in an area I
clearly have almost no knowledge of - i.e. networking.

The systems, for the most part, have little in common except for one
important area. Many of the Oracle development tools I use are windows
based and I prefer to run Oracle under Linux. I'm a bit leary of WINE
or something like it, at the moment. Apart from the convenience of
printer sharing, etc., the only compelling reason to network the
systems at all is for development in client-server mode.

As an alternative to ISP-MS-Linux, would ISP-Linux-MS have any large
advantages given my requirements?

>
> You should seriously consider obtaining a 4 port cable/dsl router (such
> as the Linksys BEFSR41) to place between your two computers and your
> broadband router. This device draws very little power, has no harddrive
> or monitor, is easily configured from any computer connected to the lan
> side using a browser, and relieves one of your computers from having to
> stay running 24/7/365 for the benefit of the other computer(s).
> Such a router handles the WAN side using DHCP or PPPoE or static ip,
> depending on the requirements of the isp and internally uses DHCP or
> static ip to assign the private ip addresses.
> Your computers would all each have only one ethernet card and one ip
> address and that ip would be in the private range which is a protection
> against intruders. Any additional boxes would get their ip addresses
> using DHCP.

I'm not sure of the role of the router that you suggest. Does it look
something like this:

+--------------+ +--------------+
|Intel Box | |Windoze Box |
| | | |
| Network card | | Network card |
| (192.168.1.2)| | (192.168.1.1)|
+------+-------+ +------+-------+
| |
| |
| +--------+ +
+--------------+ Router +------------+
+----+---+
|
+--------+--------+
| Modem |
|(nnn.nnn.nnn.nnn)| -- Assigned by ISP
+--------+--------+
|
ISP

And, if so, do I have to yank the modem out of the MS box or can I use
and external modem I happen to have lying around somewhere - probably
in the fishing tackle box.

Thanks again for your help, guys, this is looking less scarey by the
moment.

TIA

Steve

steve wrote:

> Clive Dove <chdove@rogers.com> wrote in message
> news:<eopRa.92453$sI91.78875@news04.bloor.is.net.c able.rogers.com>...
>> steve wrote:
>>
>> > This may attract some laughs but I am having trouble getting past
>> > move 1.
>> >
>> > I want to set up something like this:
>> >
>> >
>> > network modem
>> > Intel Box ---------------- Windoze Box ------------------ ISP
>> > --------- -----------
>> > Red Hat 7.2 Windows ME
>> > Oracle 8i MS Office
>> > Oracle clients
>> > e.g. Warehouse
>> > Builder
>> > email client
>> > Web browser
>> > |
>> > |
>> > Printer
>> > -------
>> >
>> > All the docs start by saying 'with your IP Address...'
>> >
>> > The questions are:
>> >
>> > - I suppose I will need an IP address for both the Linux and
>> > Windoze boxes. Can I just make them up or do I have to get them
>> > from somewhere?
>> > - My ISP uses dynamic IP assignment - I hever know what I will get
>> > from one session to the next. If I have already assigned my own IP
>> > Address to the MS box, what happens when I go on-line.
>> >
>> > I'm pretty confused here, I can tell ya.
>> >
>> > TIA
>>
>
> That is a bloody brilliant follow up and thanks to Mark Taylor, too. I
> think I get it, or at least it's a good start.
>
> Got a couple more questions...below.
>
>>
>> Your Windows box is serving the dual purpose of being a workstation
>> and a router/gateway between your local net and the internet.
>>
>> So the WAN side of the windows box acquires the ip address from the
>> isp and the LAN side has an ip address in a private ip range such as
>> 192.168.1.x. Addresses in the private range do not appear on the
>> internet.
>>
>> So, if you assign 192.168.1.1 to the windows box and 192.168.1.2 to
>> the linux box (and 192.168.1.3 or higher to any additional boxes that
>> you may wish to hang on to the net through a hub) then:
>> The routing table in the linux box would have 192.168.1.1 as its
>> default routing.
>>
>> The windows box would have the public gateway address assigned by the
>> isp as its default route and 192.168.1.1 as its route to the private
>> network.
>>
>> The two ip address ranges are not affected by each other. The router
>> software in the windows box performs network address translation.
>>
>> Of course, as your isp assigns dynamic ip addresses, this does not
>> allow you to have a publicly accessible server on the private net,
>> but that is contrary to the suthorized use policy anyway.
>>
>> Your scheme is the reverse of what most people do who use computers
>> as
>> routers. Usually they prefer to use a linux box as the router.
>
> That would be my eventual aim. The only reason that I have proposed
> this setup is because I regularly use the MS box for on-line work and
> the Linux box is, for the moment, an Oracle development setup. In
> other words, the MS box - ISP setup works and what ain't broke for the
> moment stays put especially as I will be tinkering about in an area I
> clearly have almost no knowledge of - i.e. networking.
>
> The systems, for the most part, have little in common except for one
> important area. Many of the Oracle development tools I use are windows
> based and I prefer to run Oracle under Linux. I'm a bit leary of WINE
> or something like it, at the moment. Apart from the convenience of
> printer sharing, etc., the only compelling reason to network the
> systems at all is for development in client-server mode.
>
> As an alternative to ISP-MS-Linux, would ISP-Linux-MS have any large
> advantages given my requirements?
>
>>
>> You should seriously consider obtaining a 4 port cable/dsl router
>> (such as the Linksys BEFSR41) to place between your two computers and
>> your broadband router. This device draws very little power, has no
>> harddrive or monitor, is easily configured from any computer
>> connected to the lan side using a browser, and relieves one of your
>> computers from having to stay running 24/7/365 for the benefit of the
>> other computer(s). Such a router handles the WAN side using DHCP or
>> PPPoE or static ip, depending on the requirements of the isp and
>> internally uses DHCP or static ip to assign the private ip addresses.
>> Your computers would all each have only one ethernet card and one ip
>> address and that ip would be in the private range which is a
>> protection against intruders. Any additional boxes would get their ip
>> addresses using DHCP.
>
> I'm not sure of the role of the router that you suggest. Does it look
> something like this:
>
> +--------------+ +--------------+
> |Intel Box | |Windoze Box |
> | | | |
> | Network card | | Network card |
> | (192.168.1.2)| | (192.168.1.1)|
> +------+-------+ +------+-------+
> | |
> | |
> | +--------+ +
> +--------------+ Router +------------+
> +----+---+
> |
> +--------+--------+
> | Modem |
> |(nnn.nnn.nnn.nnn)| -- Assigned by ISP
> +--------+--------+
> |
> ISP
>
> And, if so, do I have to yank the modem out of the MS box or can I use
> and external modem I happen to have lying around somewhere - probably
> in the fishing tackle box.
>
> Thanks again for your help, guys, this is looking less scarey by the
> moment.
>
> TIA
>
> Steve


Sorry, I am mentally locked into broadband access (cable or dsl).

The BEFSR41 that I mentioned is a cable/dsl router that connects between
a cable modem or dsl modem and up to 4 computers (expandable to more
through a hub.

For dial-up, you would need a computer to handle the serial connection
and the slip or ppp service.

I am still convinced that this is easier and more secure through a linux
box than through a windows box, provided your modem will work in linux
(some software modems don't have linux drivers).

The customary way to handle this is to take an old 486 box (the one
being used as a footstool because you have replaced it with 586 or 686)
and install a straight server version of linux, using the modem as your
WAN side and an ethernet card through a hub or switch on as your LAN
side.

In any event, the principle is the same. Your WAN side is a slip or ppp
connection to your isp and it owns the public ip address. This ip
address is separate from the private ip address that is on the LAN side
and is in the same private ip range as the other local computers.

This is a secure set-up. External requesters cannot see the private ip
range and therefore cannot get past the box that is serving as the
routeer/gateway. Internal requesters would be routed to the ethernet
card if they were addressed to an ip in the private range and all
requesters addressed to a public ip range would be routed to the serial
connection as the default.

The ip addresses on the WAN side are dynamic while the ip addresses on
the LAN side are static. The linux box knows the private ip address of
the windows box and vice versa and any requests to the public net from
the linux box are simply routed to the windows box and handled there
using Network Address Translation (which is often called ip
masquerading in linux)

So, until you subscribe to a cable or dsl service, leave the set-up with
the gateway box being the one that already has an installed modem.
Once you have a dsl or cable subscription, then put in an inexpensive
dedicated router and connect both boxes to it.