ntpdate - PST/PDT

I started using ntpd and ntpdate a few months ago to keep a number of
servers in sync with each other -- important for my backup tasks. It was
working so well, I paid no attention after awhile, but I noticed a few days
ago that the time change has created a problem for me. While ntpd is
working great on my server, with the time change giving it no problem, when
the client servers "sync" to mine, they come up an hour off. I'm sure
there is just some simple thing I have to do, but I just have not been able
to find it. What I notice is that my server gives the time in PDT, and the
client servers give it in PST. That's obviously what I need to fix, but
how the #$@#%@#$ do I fix it? I can't find anything in man pages, I've
searched online, blah, blah. Fact is, if I use ntpdate on the client
machines to sync directly with pool.ntp.org, the same problem occurs. Why
does it work on mine, but not on the others?

Sorry, I'm starting to ramble now. I'll stop.

Thanks,

Eric



--
----------------------------------------
Eric Thompson
eTc Computer Consultants
duetc@etc-consult.com
----------------------------------------

On Fri, 14 Mar 2008 16:28:46 +0000, EricThompson wrote:

> I started using ntpd and ntpdate a few months ago to keep a number of
> servers in sync with each other -- important for my backup tasks. It was
> working so well, I paid no attention after awhile, but I noticed a few days
> ago that the time change has created a problem for me. While ntpd is
> working great on my server, with the time change giving it no problem, when
> the client servers "sync" to mine, they come up an hour off. I'm sure
> there is just some simple thing I have to do, but I just have not been able
> to find it. What I notice is that my server gives the time in PDT, and the
> client servers give it in PST. That's obviously what I need to fix, but
> how the #$@#%@#$ do I fix it? I can't find anything in man pages, I've
> searched online, blah, blah. Fact is, if I use ntpdate on the client
> machines to sync directly with pool.ntp.org, the same problem occurs. Why
> does it work on mine, but not on the others?
>
> Sorry, I'm starting to ramble now. I'll stop.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Eric

Couple of things...

The Energy Policy Act of 2005, changed when DST changes. This took
effect last year. Electronic devices that were not updated to use the
new dates change DST at the wrong time. My old Tivo for instance (
not sub'd... just use as a digital vcr ) does not have the Linux patch
needed to fix the time so it is off by an hour.. I just changed the time
zone on the device and I'll change it back when the DST change takes
effect on it in April.

NTP uses UTC time. The device that gets the time info from the NTP source
applies it's own DST / Timezone logic and displays the local time. So...
if you have some devices that have been updated with the new rules, they
will show the correct time. If you have old devices/software that has not
been updated, it will show the wrong time until April.

.... something like that.

I wish that they would have just gone up 30 minutes and left it there...
no nore DST... just split the difference and added 30 minutes to
everything.

jack




--
D.A.M. - Mothers Against Dyslexia

see http://www.jacksnodgrass.com for my contact info.

jack - Grapevine/Richardson

Of course, I knew about the change in DST, because we all had to deal with
it last fall, and a few days ago (it annoys me -- why not leave well enough
alone). I assumed that there was a more elegant way of dealing with this
in Linux than picking a neighboring Time Zone . . . Is that what I should
do? I don't really mind, I just wanted to do the "right" thing. If that's
the answer, it actually makes me feel a little better -- like maybe I
wasn't as ignorant as I was feeling.

but maybe i still am . . .

correct me if I misunderstood, and if changing temporarily to a neighboring
time zone is not the best way to handle this.

Thanks again.

Eric


Jack Snodgrass wrote:

> On Fri, 14 Mar 2008 16:28:46 +0000, EricThompson wrote:
>
>> I started using ntpd and ntpdate a few months ago to keep a number of
>> servers in sync with each other -- important for my backup tasks. It was
>> working so well, I paid no attention after awhile, but I noticed a few
>> days
>> ago that the time change has created a problem for me. While ntpd is
>> working great on my server, with the time change giving it no problem,
>> when
>> the client servers "sync" to mine, they come up an hour off. I'm sure
>> there is just some simple thing I have to do, but I just have not been
>> able
>> to find it. What I notice is that my server gives the time in PDT, and
>> the
>> client servers give it in PST. That's obviously what I need to fix, but
>> how the #$@#%@#$ do I fix it? I can't find anything in man pages, I've
>> searched online, blah, blah. Fact is, if I use ntpdate on the client
>> machines to sync directly with pool.ntp.org, the same problem occurs.
>> Why does it work on mine, but not on the others?
>>
>> Sorry, I'm starting to ramble now. I'll stop.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Eric
>
> Couple of things...
>
> The Energy Policy Act of 2005, changed when DST changes. This took
> effect last year. Electronic devices that were not updated to use the
> new dates change DST at the wrong time. My old Tivo for instance (
> not sub'd... just use as a digital vcr ) does not have the Linux patch
> needed to fix the time so it is off by an hour.. I just changed the time
> zone on the device and I'll change it back when the DST change takes
> effect on it in April.
>
> NTP uses UTC time. The device that gets the time info from the NTP source
> applies it's own DST / Timezone logic and displays the local time. So...
> if you have some devices that have been updated with the new rules, they
> will show the correct time. If you have old devices/software that has not
> been updated, it will show the wrong time until April.
>
> ... something like that.
>
> I wish that they would have just gone up 30 minutes and left it there...
> no nore DST... just split the difference and added 30 minutes to
> everything.
>
> jack
>
>
>
>

--
----------------------------------------
Eric Thompson
eTc Computer Consultants
duetc@etc-consult.com
----------------------------------------

On Fri, 14 Mar 2008 16:28:46 +0000, EricThompson wrote:

> I started using ntpd and ntpdate a few months ago to keep a number of
> servers in sync with each other -- important for my backup tasks. It
> was working so well, I paid no attention after awhile, but I noticed a
> few days ago that the time change has created a problem for me. While
> ntpd is working great on my server, with the time change giving it no
> problem, when the client servers "sync" to mine, they come up an hour
> off. I'm sure there is just some simple thing I have to do, but I just
> have not been able to find it. What I notice is that my server gives
> the time in PDT, and the client servers give it in PST. That's
> obviously what I need to fix, but how the #$@#%@#$ do I fix it? I can't
> find anything in man pages, I've searched online, blah, blah. Fact is,
> if I use ntpdate on the client machines to sync directly with
> pool.ntp.org, the same problem occurs. Why does it work on mine, but
> not on the others?
>
> Sorry, I'm starting to ramble now. I'll stop.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Eric

Update the timezone packages on the clients.

On Fri, 14 Mar 2008 10:01:28 -0700, EricThompson wrote:

> correct me if I misunderstood, and if changing temporarily to a
> neighboring time zone is not the best way to handle this.

No, it is not. You are expected to maintain your systems by keeping them
patched and it appears that you have not done that. Had you done so this
problem would not have arisen.

EricThompson <duetc@etc-consult.com> wrote:
> I started using ntpd and ntpdate a few months ago to keep a number of
> servers in sync with each other -- important for my backup tasks. It was
> working so well, I paid no attention after awhile, but I noticed a few days
> ago that the time change has created a problem for me. While ntpd is
> working great on my server, with the time change giving it no problem, when
> the client servers "sync" to mine, they come up an hour off. I'm sure
> there is just some simple thing I have to do, but I just have not been able
> to find it. What I notice is that my server gives the time in PDT, and the
> client servers give it in PST. That's obviously what I need to fix, but
> how the #$@#%@#$ do I fix it? I can't find anything in man pages, I've
> searched online, blah, blah. Fact is, if I use ntpdate on the client
> machines to sync directly with pool.ntp.org, the same problem occurs. Why
> does it work on mine, but not on the others?

As noted by another poster there was a change in the time change, XST
to XDST. I found this link useful

https://secure-support.novell.com/Ka...AL_Public.html

and in particular the section titled

Manually updating timezone data for regular applications

See man zic for detailed explanations of the configuration files.

I used the substitute for step 5 found at the very end of that section
and skipped step 7 since /etc/timezone was already linked (symbolic)
to the new time zone files which had simply replaced the old ones. YMMV.

> Sorry, I'm starting to ramble now. I'll stop.

No problem. The government's time warping antics are enough to make
one ramble.

--
Clifford Kite
/* Bluffing in a poker game can win big; bluffing in a newsgroup
only attracts sharks. */

You are correct.

My very sincerest apologies.

And kind personal regards.

Eric



Dave Uhring wrote:

> On Fri, 14 Mar 2008 10:01:28 -0700, EricThompson wrote:
>
>> correct me if I misunderstood, and if changing temporarily to a
>> neighboring time zone is not the best way to handle this.
>
> No, it is not. You are expected to maintain your systems by keeping them
> patched and it appears that you have not done that. Had you done so this
> problem would not have arisen.

--
----------------------------------------
Eric Thompson
eTc Computer Consultants
duetc@etc-consult.com
----------------------------------------

Thank you.

That fixed it, and also clarified that it was indeed ignorance on my part.

duh.

Eric


ray wrote:

> On Fri, 14 Mar 2008 16:28:46 +0000, EricThompson wrote:
>
>> I started using ntpd and ntpdate a few months ago to keep a number of
>> servers in sync with each other -- important for my backup tasks. It
>> was working so well, I paid no attention after awhile, but I noticed a
>> few days ago that the time change has created a problem for me. While
>> ntpd is working great on my server, with the time change giving it no
>> problem, when the client servers "sync" to mine, they come up an hour
>> off. I'm sure there is just some simple thing I have to do, but I just
>> have not been able to find it. What I notice is that my server gives
>> the time in PDT, and the client servers give it in PST. That's
>> obviously what I need to fix, but how the #$@#%@#$ do I fix it? I can't
>> find anything in man pages, I've searched online, blah, blah. Fact is,
>> if I use ntpdate on the client machines to sync directly with
>> pool.ntp.org, the same problem occurs. Why does it work on mine, but
>> not on the others?
>>
>> Sorry, I'm starting to ramble now. I'll stop.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Eric
>
> Update the timezone packages on the clients.

--
----------------------------------------
Eric Thompson
eTc Computer Consultants
duetc@etc-consult.com
----------------------------------------

"Jack Snodgrass" <jacks_temp_id_bf2142@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:t%xCj.3897$%Y2.3618@trnddc08...
> ...
> I wish that they would have just gone up 30 minutes and left it there...
> no nore DST... just split the difference and added 30 minutes to
> everything.

Actually, that would be worse - as our U.S. hour would fall on everyone
else's half-hour.

A time-zone realignment would be less damaging. Without regard to political
boundaries, every timezone would be centered on each longitude divisible by
15 +/- 7.5 degrees. It's the political alterations that are insane in some
cases. Fixing that would help in some cases. It's all the railroads' fault
anyway.

EricThompson <duetc@etc-consult.com> writes:

>I started using ntpd and ntpdate a few months ago to keep a number of
>servers in sync with each other -- important for my backup tasks. It was
>working so well, I paid no attention after awhile, but I noticed a few days
>ago that the time change has created a problem for me. While ntpd is
>working great on my server, with the time change giving it no problem, when
>the client servers "sync" to mine, they come up an hour off. I'm sure

You have to upgrade your /etc/localtime on your computers. YOu have not
been keeping up with securty updates. The update came out over a year ag0

Anyway

>there is just some simple thing I have to do, but I just have not been able
>to find it. What I notice is that my server gives the time in PDT, and the
>client servers give it in PST. That's obviously what I need to fix, but
>how the #$@#%@#$ do I fix it? I can't find anything in man pages, I've
>searched online, blah, blah. Fact is, if I use ntpdate on the client
>machines to sync directly with pool.ntp.org, the same problem occurs. Why
>does it work on mine, but not on the others?

BEcause you kept your own machine up to date and not the others.



>Sorry, I'm starting to ramble now. I'll stop.
mkdir /tmp/tz
cd /tmp/tz
wget ftp://elsie.nci.nih.gov/pub/tzdata2008a.tar.gz
tar -xzf tzdata2008a.tar.gz

Become root and do

zic northamerica
cp /usr/share/zoninfo/America/Vancouver /etc/localtime

And you are now set up. Do this on each machine.

If they are windows machines, you have additional problems and I cannot
help.