[Debian sarge] strange login behavior

So I recently did an "apt-get update" and "apt-get upgrade" on my sarge
installation. Now when I reboot, X starts up (runlevel 5), and the
login screen shows up, but doesn't respond to the keyboard/keypad.
(This is a Compaq laptop; I have a PS/2 keyboard attached). I'm
running KDE 3.3 but I'm a little foggy on whether KDE is running
when I get to the login screen.

The workaround I've found is: Click on Menu and choose Console Login.
In a minute or two it times out and restarts X; this time, I
can login at the graphical screen with no problems.

Any idea what's going on here? During the upgrade I was bombarded
with a bunch of messages I didn't really understand about ThinkPad
and tpb and tpctl--note that my machine is *not* a ThinkPad. But
in any case I tried removing the executable bit from /etc/init.d/tpctl
and rebooting, and it didn't change a thing.

Mike Oliver <mike_lists@verizon.net> wrote:
> So I recently did an "apt-get update" and "apt-get upgrade" on my sarge
> installation. Now when I reboot, X starts up (runlevel 5), and the
> login screen shows up, but doesn't respond to the keyboard/keypad.

Consider not running xdm. Switch to a text console, uninstall xdm, and
start X via "startx" instead. Investigate your X config file as
appropriate.

> (This is a Compaq laptop; I have a PS/2 keyboard attached). I'm

Try detaching it. Try using the normal one. Try using a USB keyboard.
Try configuring your X config file for a ps/2 keyboard, usb keyboard, or
whatever. Try something instead of sitting with a possibly lame
expression on the face :)>.

> running KDE 3.3 but I'm a little foggy on whether KDE is running
> when I get to the login screen.

That's kdm at best, but it's whatever you have configured as login
manager for X.

> The workaround I've found is: Click on Menu and choose Console Login.

Why not log in at the console instead?

> In a minute or two it times out and restarts X; this time, I
> can login at the graphical screen with no problems.

Oh!!!! You mean that there is a race beteen loading the keyboard driver
and starting xdm? Great! Then kill xdm/X with ctl-alt-bkspace once and
let it restart. Then you kno who won the race. Tell the author or
package maintainer of the appropriate package (xdm?).

> Any idea what's going on here? During the upgrade I was bombarded
> with a bunch of messages I didn't really understand about ThinkPad

Well, the snide answer is that you cure that by understanding them. Or
disregarding them. Or loking away.

Failing that, you can read the release notes for your X server release
and driver, or the notes for your laptop on linux-laptop(s).net.

> and tpb and tpctl--note that my machine is *not* a ThinkPad. But

So why tell us about it? I'm puzzled.

> in any case I tried removing the executable bit from /etc/init.d/tpctl
> and rebooting, and it didn't change a thing.

Should it? Do you have links pointing to that from somewhere in
/etc/rc*.d? Oh - you think it gets loaded? Well, uninstall it. Read the
file and disable it.

TPCTL=/usr/bin/tpctl
test -x $TPCTL || exit 0


But thanks! I'll install it and see what it does!


Peter

Peter T. Breuer wrote:
> Mike Oliver <mike_lists@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>>So I recently did an "apt-get update" and "apt-get upgrade" on my sarge
>>installation. Now when I reboot, X starts up (runlevel 5), and the
>>login screen shows up, but doesn't respond to the keyboard/keypad.
>
>
> Consider not running xdm. Switch to a text console, uninstall xdm, and
> start X via "startx" instead. Investigate your X config file as
> appropriate.

I'm not running xdm. I'm running kdm. Not really sure how to
avoid starting X automatically, but would prefer to avoid that
step in any case.

>>The workaround I've found is: Click on Menu and choose Console Login.
>
>
> Why not log in at the console instead?

It's kind of a pain. I can do that and use startx, but
for some reason GNOME comes up instead of KDE, and I have
fewer virtual tty's.

>>In a minute or two it times out and restarts X; this time, I
>>can login at the graphical screen with no problems.
>
> Oh!!!! You mean that there is a race beteen loading the keyboard driver
> and starting xdm? Great! Then kill xdm/X with ctl-alt-bkspace once and
> let it restart.

First thing I tried. But the system doesn't
respond to the keyboard. Not even ctrl-alt-backspace.

>>Any idea what's going on here? During the upgrade I was bombarded
>>with a bunch of messages I didn't really understand about ThinkPad
>
>
> Well, the snide answer is that you cure that by understanding them.

That's why I asked.

By the way, if those messages were saved anywhere, I can't find
them--I did try poking around in /var/log.

>>in any case I tried removing the executable bit from /etc/init.d/tpctl
>>and rebooting, and it didn't change a thing.
>
>
> Should it? Do you have links pointing to that from somewhere in
> /etc/rc*.d? Oh - you think it gets loaded? Well, uninstall it.

Why should that make a difference, given that turning off the
executable bit didn't?

Mike Oliver <mike_lists@verizon.net> wrote:
> Peter T. Breuer wrote:
> > Mike Oliver <mike_lists@verizon.net> wrote:
> >
> >>So I recently did an "apt-get update" and "apt-get upgrade" on my sarge
> >>installation. Now when I reboot, X starts up (runlevel 5), and the
> >>login screen shows up, but doesn't respond to the keyboard/keypad.
> >
> >
> > Consider not running xdm. Switch to a text console, uninstall xdm, and
> > start X via "startx" instead. Investigate your X config file as
> > appropriate.
>
> I'm not running xdm. I'm running kdm.

That's an xdm.

> Not really sure how to
> avoid starting X automatically,


Become sure. Change the default setting in your inittab.

> but would prefer to avoid that
> step in any case.

Why? It's trivial!

> >>The workaround I've found is: Click on Menu and choose Console Login.
> > Why not log in at the console instead?
>
> It's kind of a pain. I can do that and use startx, but
> for some reason GNOME comes up instead of KDE, and I have

Whatever you say should come up comes up. Man startx (or read it!).
Check your .xinitrc to see what you say should start (or write it).

> fewer virtual tty's.

?? You have as many as you start.

> >>In a minute or two it times out and restarts X; this time, I
> >>can login at the graphical screen with no problems.
> >
> > Oh!!!! You mean that there is a race beteen loading the keyboard driver
> > and starting xdm? Great! Then kill xdm/X with ctl-alt-bkspace once and
> > let it restart.
>
> First thing I tried. But the system doesn't
> respond to the keyboard. Not even ctrl-alt-backspace.

Then kill it with the mouse - your login manager should have a restart
button. If not, add one!

But delaying your xdm startup point in the boot sequence should
be fine, no? Or add a kill once to the script itself!


Are you SURE your keybard is

a) ps/2
b) internal

?? If it is a second external ps/2 keyboard, use the first (fixed)
keyboard to send ctl-alt-bkspc, and thus restart your xdm.

> >>Any idea what's going on here? During the upgrade I was bombarded
> >>with a bunch of messages I didn't really understand about ThinkPad
> >
> > Well, the snide answer is that you cure that by understanding them.
>
> That's why I asked.
>
> By the way, if those messages were saved anywhere, I can't find
> them--I did try poking around in /var/log.

Reinstall the packages to see the same messages - I daresay they were
sent only to the console the admin ran their installation on...

> >>in any case I tried removing the executable bit from /etc/init.d/tpctl
> >>and rebooting, and it didn't change a thing.
> >
> > Should it? Do you have links pointing to that from somewhere in
> > /etc/rc*.d? Oh - you think it gets loaded? Well, uninstall it.
>
> Why should that make a difference, given that turning off the
> executable bit didn't?

It made a difference - you just didn't see it. But what's your beef with
tpctl? I installed it, given your recmmendation, and it's a harmless
set of kernel modules and tools for changing the display brightness on
a thinkpad.




Peter

Peter T. Breuer wrote:
> Mike Oliver <mike_lists@verizon.net> wrote:

>>Not really sure how to
>>avoid starting X automatically,
>
> Become sure. Change the default setting in your inittab.
>
>>but would prefer to avoid that
>>step in any case.
>
>
> Why? It's trivial!

Because I want X to start automatically.

>>fewer virtual tty's.
>
> ?? You have as many as you start.

Look, I don't know what's going on. That's why I
asked. I've tried to describe what happens. There
are fewer virtual ttys (accessible with ctrl+alt+fn).

> But delaying your xdm startup point in the boot sequence should
> be fine, no?

Yeah, I suppose that would be alright, though I'd really
rather find out why this has happened and fix it.

> Are you SURE your keybard is
>
> a) ps/2
> b) internal
>
> ?? If it is a second external ps/2 keyboard, use the first (fixed)
> keyboard to send ctl-alt-bkspc, and thus restart your xdm.

The system responds neither to the external keyboard, nor to
the one on the laptop.

>>By the way, if those messages were saved anywhere, I can't find
>>them--I did try poking around in /var/log.
>
>
> Reinstall the packages to see the same messages - I daresay they were
> sent only to the console the admin ran their installation on...

Don't know which packages they were. This was during
an apt-get upgrade.

>>Why should that make a difference, given that turning off the
>>executable bit didn't?
>
>
> It made a difference - you just didn't see it. But what's your beef with
> tpctl? I installed it, given your recmmendation, and it's a harmless
> set of kernel modules and tools for changing the display brightness on
> a thinkpad.

I don't recall recommending it, but I don't have any particular
beef with it. I mentioned it because the messages shown during
upgrade mentioned this ThinkPad stuff, and I thought it *could*
have been the issue. But tpctl per se doesn't seem to be.

Mike Oliver <mike_lists@verizon.net> wrote:
> Peter T. Breuer wrote:
> > Mike Oliver <mike_lists@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> >>Not really sure how to
> >>avoid starting X automatically,
> >
> > Become sure. Change the default setting in your inittab.
> >
> >>but would prefer to avoid that
> >>step in any case.
> >
> > Why? It's trivial!
>
> Because I want X to start automatically.

But then you put up with your keyboard not working until you kill X and
restart it, which is difficult with your keyboard not working.


> Look, I don't know what's going on. That's why I
> asked. I've tried to describe what happens. There
> are fewer virtual ttys (accessible with ctrl+alt+fn).

There are as many as you want there to be, whenever you want them to be.

> > But delaying your xdm startup point in the boot sequence should
> > be fine, no?
>
> Yeah, I suppose that would be alright, though I'd really
> rather find out why this has happened and fix it.
>
> > Are you SURE your keybard is
> >
> > a) ps/2
> > b) internal
> >
> > ?? If it is a second external ps/2 keyboard, use the first (fixed)
> > keyboard to send ctl-alt-bkspc, and thus restart your xdm.
>
> The system responds neither to the external keyboard, nor to
> the one on the laptop.

Does your bios allow the choice of an int/ext keyboard? What do people
with your laptop say about how to configure it on linux-laptops pages?

BTW - it is not clear if your keyboard works. Does the LED light when
you press caps-lock?

> > Reinstall the packages to see the same messages - I daresay they were
> > sent only to the console the admin ran their installation on...
>
> Don't know which packages they were. This was during
> an apt-get upgrade.

You said :- tpctl.

> >>Why should that make a difference, given that turning off the
> >>executable bit didn't?
> >
> > It made a difference - you just didn't see it. But what's your beef with
> > tpctl? I installed it, given your recommendation, and it's a harmless
> > set of kernel modules and tools for changing the display brightness on
> > a thinkpad.
>
> I don't recall recommending it, but I don't have any particular
> beef with it. I mentioned it because the messages shown during
> upgrade mentioned this ThinkPad stuff, and I thought it *could*
> have been the issue. But tpctl per se doesn't seem to be.

Well, either fix your xdm startup script to kill itself once after
starting, read about your laptop on the linux-laptop pages, read the
release notes for your X server, delay the xdm startup, start X with
startx instead of xdm, try a different login manager, change your X
configuration, check out google, or think of something else.

Any interesting messages from the server when X starts?

Peter

Peter T. Breuer wrote:
> Mike Oliver <mike_lists@verizon.net> wrote:
>> Because I want X to start automatically.
>
> But then you put up with your keyboard not working until you kill X and
> restart it, which is difficult with your keyboard not working.

But it was all working fine before the upgrade. I just want to get
it back working as it was before, except with the new better
software.

>> The system responds neither to the external keyboard, nor to
>> the one on the laptop.
>
> Does your bios allow the choice of an int/ext keyboard? What do people
> with your laptop say about how to configure it on linux-laptops pages?

All worked fine before the upgrade.

>
> BTW - it is not clear if your keyboard works. Does the LED light when
> you press caps-lock?

Keyboard works fine, after the workaround I described. (Use mouse
to get to console login, let it timeout.)

>>>Reinstall the packages to see the same messages - I daresay they were
>>>sent only to the console the admin ran their installation on...
>>
>>Don't know which packages they were. This was during
>>an apt-get upgrade.
>
>
> You said :- tpctl.

I distinctly mentioned that this was the outcome of
an apt-get upgrade.

> Well, either fix your xdm startup script to kill itself once after
> starting, read about your laptop on the linux-laptop pages, read the
> release notes for your X server, delay the xdm startup, start X with
> startx instead of xdm, try a different login manager, change your X
> configuration, check out google, or think of something else.

Thought I might get some help here. Actually you have
been some help--I didn't know about inittab
before.

> Any interesting messages from the server when X starts?

You mean in /var/log/XFree86.0.log ? Hard to say--if there
were, it would be lost in a ton of minutiae. Any strings
to search for?

Hello

Mike Oliver (<mike_lists@verizon.net>) wrote:
> Peter T. Breuer wrote:
>> Mike Oliver <mike_lists@verizon.net> wrote:
>>
>>>So I recently did an "apt-get update" and "apt-get upgrade" on my
>>>sarge installation. Now when I reboot, X starts up (runlevel 5), and
>>>the login screen shows up, but doesn't respond to the
keyboard/keypad.
>>
>> Consider not running xdm. Switch to a text console, uninstall xdm,
>> and start X via "startx" instead. Investigate your X config file as
>> appropriate.
>
> I'm not running xdm. I'm running kdm. Not really sure how to
> avoid starting X automatically, but would prefer to avoid that
> step in any case.

Perhaps you have two init scripts, one for kdm and one for gdm, the
Gnome display manager. Check if gdm is installed (apt-cache policy
gdm). There is (or has been) a known bug in Sarge that causes the
problems you have. Please also search the archive of the debian-user
mailing list at <http://groups.google.com> (group linux.debian.user),
the solution has been posted there several times. Try "debian sarge kdm
no keyboard". And take a look at the bug tracking system
(http://bugs.debian.org/kdm).

>>>The workaround I've found is: Click on Menu and choose Console
>>>Login.
>>
>> Why not log in at the console instead?
>
> It's kind of a pain. I can do that and use startx, but
> for some reason GNOME comes up instead of KDE, and I have
> fewer virtual tty's.

That is because Gnome is configured as the default x-session-manager
in /etc/alternatives. Run

update-alternatives --config x-session-manager

Or make sure that "allow-user-xsession" in in /etc/X11/Xsession.options,
and create your own ~/.xsession that runs startkde.

best regards
Andreas Janssen

--
Andreas Janssen <andreas.janssen@bigfoot.com>
PGP-Key-ID: 0xDC801674 ICQ #17079270
Registered Linux User #267976
http://www.andreas-janssen.de/debian-tipps-sarge.html

Mike Oliver <mike_lists@verizon.net> wrote:
> Peter T. Breuer wrote:
> > Mike Oliver <mike_lists@verizon.net> wrote:
> >> Because I want X to start automatically.
> >
> > But then you put up with your keyboard not working until you kill X and
> > restart it, which is difficult with your keyboard not working.
>
> But it was all working fine before the upgrade. I just want to get

So?

> it back working as it was before, except with the new better
> software.

New is not better - your new software does not work well with your
compaq bios and external keyboard. This is what you are trying to work
around. Read the notes pertaining to your machine on the linux-laptop
pages!

> >> The system responds neither to the external keyboard, nor to
> >> the one on the laptop.
> >
> > Does your bios allow the choice of an int/ext keyboard? What do people
> > with your laptop say about how to configure it on linux-laptops pages?
>
> All worked fine before the upgrade.

What do they say? (are you trying to ay smething with that phrase?
What?)

>
> > BTW - it is not clear if your keyboard works. Does the LED light when
> > you press caps-lock?
>
> Keyboard works fine, after the workaround I described. (Use mouse
> to get to console login, let it timeout.)

And BEFORE the work-around? That is what I am asking. Does the LED
light when you press caps-lock?

> >>>Reinstall the packages to see the same messages - I daresay they were
> >>>sent only to the console the admin ran their installation on...
> >>
> >>Don't know which packages they were. This was during
> >>an apt-get upgrade.
> >
> > You said :- tpctl.
>
> I distinctly mentioned that this was the outcome of
> an apt-get upgrade.

So?

> > Well, either fix your xdm startup script to kill itself once after
> > starting, read about your laptop on the linux-laptop pages, read the
> > release notes for your X server, delay the xdm startup, start X with
> > startx instead of xdm, try a different login manager, change your X
> > configuration, check out google, or think of something else.
>
> Thought I might get some help here. Actually you have
> been some help--I didn't know about inittab
> before.
>
> > Any interesting messages from the server when X starts?
>
> You mean in /var/log/XFree86.0.log ?

Wherever you put the messages.

> Hard to say--if there
> were, it would be lost in a ton of minutiae. Any strings
> to search for?

The minutae are what are the interest. You get to read.

Now: either fix your xdm startup script to kill itself once after
starting, read about your laptop on the linux-laptop pages, read the
release notes for your X server, delay the xdm startup, start X with
startx instead of xdm, try a different login manager, change your X
configuration, check out google, or think of something else.

Which of those have you tried?

Personally I'd switch login managers to see if it made a difference.
Then I'd know whether I should be looking at the login manager or X
server.



Peter

Andreas Janssen wrote:

> Perhaps you have two init scripts, one for kdm and one for gdm, the
> Gnome display manager. Check if gdm is installed (apt-cache policy
> gdm). There is (or has been) a known bug in Sarge that causes the
> problems you have. Please also search the archive of the debian-user
> mailing list at <http://groups.google.com> (group linux.debian.user),
> the solution has been posted there several times. Try "debian sarge kdm
> no keyboard". And take a look at the bug tracking system
> (http://bugs.debian.org/kdm).

Thanks, Andreas. That's just the sort of thing I needed to
know. The problem was in /etc/kde3/kdmrc. I still don't
know just what the problem was, but after overwriting that file
with /etc/kde3/kdmrc.dpkg-dist (after backing up of course!)
I have a usable setup (even if the welcome screen isn't quite
as snazzy anymore).