Article - Does foxnews.com Hate Linux Users?

ERACC schrieb:
>
> "Does foxnews.com Hate Linux Users?"
>
I wholeheartly hope they do. It means we're on the right track.

Kind regards

Jan

At Sat, 26 Apr 2008 21:15:36 +0100 Baron <baron.nospam@linuxmainiac.nospam.net> wrote:

>
> John Thompson wrote:
>
> > On 2008-04-26, ERACC <junkmail@eracc.com> wrote:
> >
> >>> ERACC wrote:
> >>> >
> >>> > Love them or hate them Fox News is a major USA news outlet. It
> >>> > appears they have decided to seriously disrespect the Linux
> >>> > community. Read this to see what I mean:
> >>> >
> >>> > http://blog.eracc.com/2008/04/25/doe...e-linux-users/
> >
> >> As I said in the spin-off thread in the Ubuntu group: The point is
> >> not whether or not Fox News is worth viewing to you or anyone else.
> >> The point is they *are* a major news organization and they *should*
> >> be operating system indifferent. I think ignoring these problems at
> >> large organizations like Fox News is the wrong approach for us in the
> >> Linux community.
> >
> > Why attribute to malice that which could be as readily attributed to
> > laziness or ignorance?
> >
> > Fox is using a simple test of the User-Agent string for this; one of
> > the many user-agent add-ons will easily bypass it.
>
> Yes I agree it will ! But why should we have to do that ?

Because the (ignorant? lazy?) web weenies working for Fox wrote some dumb
JavaScript code that is testing the user-agent for some stupid reason.

>

--
Robert Heller -- Get the Deepwoods Software FireFox Toolbar!
Deepwoods Software -- Linux Installation and Administration
http://www.deepsoft.com/ -- Web Hosting, with CGI and Database
heller@deepsoft.com -- Contract Programming: C/C++, Tcl/Tk

On Sat, 26 Apr 2008 15:55:20 -0500 Robert Heller <heller@deepsoft.com> wrote:
| At Sat, 26 Apr 2008 21:15:36 +0100 Baron <baron.nospam@linuxmainiac.nospam.net> wrote:
|
|>
|> John Thompson wrote:
|>
|> > On 2008-04-26, ERACC <junkmail@eracc.com> wrote:
|> >
|> >>> ERACC wrote:
|> >>> >
|> >>> > Love them or hate them Fox News is a major USA news outlet. It
|> >>> > appears they have decided to seriously disrespect the Linux
|> >>> > community. Read this to see what I mean:
|> >>> >
|> >>> > http://blog.eracc.com/2008/04/25/doe...e-linux-users/
|> >
|> >> As I said in the spin-off thread in the Ubuntu group: The point is
|> >> not whether or not Fox News is worth viewing to you or anyone else.
|> >> The point is they *are* a major news organization and they *should*
|> >> be operating system indifferent. I think ignoring these problems at
|> >> large organizations like Fox News is the wrong approach for us in the
|> >> Linux community.
|> >
|> > Why attribute to malice that which could be as readily attributed to
|> > laziness or ignorance?
|> >
|> > Fox is using a simple test of the User-Agent string for this; one of
|> > the many user-agent add-ons will easily bypass it.
|>
|> Yes I agree it will ! But why should we have to do that ?
|
| Because the (ignorant? lazy?) web weenies working for Fox wrote some dumb
| JavaScript code that is testing the user-agent for some stupid reason.

But, is it testing to see if the OS is one of those they approve of, or if
the OS is one of those they disapprove of.

--
|WARNING: Due to extreme spam, I no longer see any articles originating from |
| Google Groups. If you want your postings to be seen by more readers |
| you will need to find a different place to post on Usenet. |
| Phil Howard KA9WGN (email for humans: first name in lower case at ipal.net) |

On Fri, 25 Apr 2008 23:59:08 -0500, ERACC wrote:

> (Notice: The Followup-to on this message is for comp.os.linux.misc but
> one may always ignore that in a followup if desired)
>
> Love them or hate them Fox News is a major USA news outlet. It appears
> they have decided to seriously disrespect the Linux community. Read this
> to see what I mean:
>
> http://blog.eracc.com/2008/04/25/doe...e-linux-users/
>
> Gene (e-mail: gene \a\t eracc \d\o\t com)

As others have mentioned switching the user agent fixes it. I think it
comes down to the fact that they can't guarantee their stuff works in
Linux without testing it and don't want to bother with Linux.

I wouldn't be surprised if there was some sort of benefit from MS for
that but then again my company doesn't test in Linux or allow us to use
Linux. This is mainly because they can't put McAfee on it but I would
have personally thought that was a good thing.

We don't block Linux users like Fox and we haven't received any
complaints as of yet. I think Fox should do the same. Most Linux users
have come to expect that some media items might not work as intended and
won't react the same way as others might.

At 26 Apr 2008 22:24:28 GMT phil-news-nospam@ipal.net wrote:

>
> On Sat, 26 Apr 2008 15:55:20 -0500 Robert Heller <heller@deepsoft.com> wrote:
> | At Sat, 26 Apr 2008 21:15:36 +0100 Baron <baron.nospam@linuxmainiac.nospam.net> wrote:
> |
> |>
> |> John Thompson wrote:
> |>
> |> > On 2008-04-26, ERACC <junkmail@eracc.com> wrote:
> |> >
> |> >>> ERACC wrote:
> |> >>> >
> |> >>> > Love them or hate them Fox News is a major USA news outlet. It
> |> >>> > appears they have decided to seriously disrespect the Linux
> |> >>> > community. Read this to see what I mean:
> |> >>> >
> |> >>> > http://blog.eracc.com/2008/04/25/doe...e-linux-users/
> |> >
> |> >> As I said in the spin-off thread in the Ubuntu group: The point is
> |> >> not whether or not Fox News is worth viewing to you or anyone else.
> |> >> The point is they *are* a major news organization and they *should*
> |> >> be operating system indifferent. I think ignoring these problems at
> |> >> large organizations like Fox News is the wrong approach for us in the
> |> >> Linux community.
> |> >
> |> > Why attribute to malice that which could be as readily attributed to
> |> > laziness or ignorance?
> |> >
> |> > Fox is using a simple test of the User-Agent string for this; one of
> |> > the many user-agent add-ons will easily bypass it.
> |>
> |> Yes I agree it will ! But why should we have to do that ?
> |
> | Because the (ignorant? lazy?) web weenies working for Fox wrote some dumb
> | JavaScript code that is testing the user-agent for some stupid reason.
>
> But, is it testing to see if the OS is one of those they approve of, or if
> the OS is one of those they disapprove of.

It is probably not really anything more that laziness and ignorance. It
is probably some stock chunk of JavaScript that is testing the browser
type to handle various issues with different versions of IE and/or
Netscape and is probably written without a sensible final 'else' clause.
And likely the JavaScript and/or the HTML is being excessively clever,
violating the 'KISS' principle, which is why it needs to test things --
it is probably (unecessarily) full of O/S and/or browser specific
hackery and is just just doing things with standard, portable
constructs.

>

--
Robert Heller -- Get the Deepwoods Software FireFox Toolbar!
Deepwoods Software -- Linux Installation and Administration
http://www.deepsoft.com/ -- Web Hosting, with CGI and Database
heller@deepsoft.com -- Contract Programming: C/C++, Tcl/Tk

In article <20080425235908.32b665f0@eracc.UUCP>, junkmail@eracc.com
(ERACC) writes:

> Love them or hate them Fox News is a major USA news outlet.
> It appears they have decided to seriously disrespect the Linux
> community. Read this to see what I mean:
>
> http://blog.eracc.com/2008/04/25/doe...e-linux-users/

That's certainly the first impression: on my Slackware 12.0 box,
using Firefox 2.0.0.4, I get the message "Windows 2000, Windows
XP, Windows XP Media Center 2005, Mac OSX 10.3 or Mac OSX 10.4
is required to view this page."

But then I decided to try some other combinations of OSes and
browsers.

My wife's laptop, running Windows XP, displayed the page under
both Firefox 2.0.0.14 and Netscape 7.1, although along with all
the pretty boxes was a message saying "Page Cannot Be Found".

On my laptop, running Windows 2000, using IE5, the Fox page
displayed headers only - no messages at all - but the status
window read "Done, with errors on page." Netscape 7.1 displayed
"Firefox 1.5 or higher is required. Click here to update."
Note that this is the identical version of Netscape that ran
successfully on my wife's XP laptop! (I installed them both,
from copies of the same self-installing .EXE).

Although the wording of the message is pretty explicit, my
W2K tests make me wonder whether it's more like that southern
racist who said, "I don't hate blacks. I hate all non-whites."

Or maybe Fox is just lying when they say that their site
will work with Windows 2000. Maybe W2K is now considered
unfashionably old.

Ironically, the blog site, when accessed with Netscape 7.1
under either W2K or XP, displays the headers and background
only. Is the pot calling the kettle black?

--
/~\ cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs)
\ / I'm really at ac.dekanfrus if you read it the right way.
X Top-posted messages will probably be ignored. See RFC1855.
/ \ HTML will DEFINITELY be ignored. Join the ASCII ribbon campaign!

ERACC wrote:

> (Notice: The Followup-to on this message is for comp.os.linux.misc but one
> may always ignore that in a followup if desired)

(Follow-up replaced and targetted groups redirected to include
both /A.O.L.M./ and /C.O.L.M./ as per the OP's terms.

In addition, [OT] added to subjectline due to this message having an
advocacy character and might be ill-received by "on-topic" pedanticists in
either group.)

> Love them or hate them Fox News is a major USA news outlet. It appears
> they have decided to seriously disrespect the Linux community. Read this
> to see what I mean:
>
> http://blog.eracc.com/2008/04/25/doe...e-linux-users/

I have tested the link to the Fox News video page as mentioned on your
website, using an old Mozilla browser.

To be quite honest, I don't think Fox has deliberately shut out GNU/Linux
users. I rather think it's one of those situations where they simply used
MS-FrontPage or a similar tool to design that website, and as such
GNU/Linux is of course left out in the cold by the generated code, since no
Microsoft product will (or can?) ever adhere to internationally agreed-upon
standards.

(Yes, the ISO has now approved of MS-OOXML as a standard - thanks to a lot
of armtwisting and a few bonuses under the table here and there - but
strangely enough, even Microsoft Office does not conform to Microsoft's
OOXML standard, so the bottomline is that even with regard to their own
standards, Microsoft can't offer compatibility.)

To get back on topic (with this off-topic post :p), my ISP officially does
not support GNU/Linux either, but I was already using GNU/Linux when I
signed up with them and I've never had a problem. Well, with the sole
exception of certain things on their website, but that appeared to come
from poor Javascript implementations and bad HTML code on their part.

Officially, their stance is "We only support Windows and OS X", and this is
basically just because they don't know enough about GNU/Linux to offer
support. Such support is a helpdesk matter, and the helpdesk is quite a
different department from their tech staff. After all, with the exception
of a few Windows webservers, most of their serverpark runs either GNU/Linux
or Solaris.

With regard to Fox News, it's also quite possible that they simply had
Microsoft or a Microsoft-only webdesign company build their website for
them, in which case the website would indeed be deliberately made to work
with Windows (and/or OS X) only, but then this would be the responsibility
of the webdesigner.

After all, GNU/Linux is not a commercial entity of the size of Microsoft or
Apple Computer, and the corporate execs only know things that have big
ringing names to them, even if those names have a bad reputation.

Lastly, Fox News is a news outlet - as you said yourself - and just as with
our local news outlets here, you can't expect journalists who live and die
for the global economy, global warming, political conflicts and other
sensational things to actually know about GNU/Linux. :p Same thing as with
the corporate executives, if it's not spectacular enough to draw the
attention, they don't know about it.

If Bill Gates farts, they'll be right on his doorstep with twenty cameras
and fifty microphones. If Linus Torvalds or Richard Stallman were to
unveil a GNU/Linux-running quantum computer, only the geeks would know.

Journalists are not geeks. They may pretend to be in order to boost their
credibility (and thus the network's ratings) but they're just people making
a living by reporting about the things that would seem important to the
unwashed grey masses. And those unwashed grey masses are just too dumb to
even know or care about GNU/Linux or Free & Open Source Software.

Hell, they - i.e. the journalists - don't even know that the "free" in FOSS
stands for freedom, and not for "free of charge" - eventhough "libre"
software _*is*_ usually free of charge as well.

The bottom line, and the morale of the whole story, it's just plain old
Hanlon's Razor...: "Never attribute to malice, that which can adequately be
explained by plain stupidity."

May the Source be with you, Brother. ;-)

--
*Aragorn*
(registered GNU/Linux user #223157)

Aragorn wrote:
> snip
> Journalists are not geeks. They may pretend to be in order to boost their
> credibility (and thus the network's ratings) but they're just people making
> a living by reporting about the things that would seem important to the
> unwashed grey masses. And those unwashed grey masses are just too dumb to
> even know or care about GNU/Linux or Free & Open Source Software.
>
> Hell, they - i.e. the journalists - don't even know that the "free" in FOSS
> stands for freedom, and not for "free of charge" - eventhough "libre"
> software _*is*_ usually free of charge as well.
>
> The bottom line, and the morale of the whole story, it's just plain old
> Hanlon's Razor...: "Never attribute to malice, that which can adequately be
> explained by plain stupidity."
>
> May the Source be with you, Brother. ;-)
================================================== =
With the emergence of modern mini-laptops like the Asus eeePC ,even
journalists are likely to begin using these marvels where Linux is King.

Frank

On Sun, 27 Apr 2008 08:30:47 +0200, Aragorn wrote:

A big whooie about nothing but some lazy web design,try user-agent
switcher in Firefox and the Fox site works fine.Only question is why you
want to watch Fox and risk brain damage....

Dave



--
Registered Linux user # 444770
Tact is the ability to tell a man he has an open mind when he has a
hole in his head.

On Sun, 27 Apr 2008 12:44:30 +0000, Dave wrote:

> A big whooie about nothing but some lazy web design,try user-agent
> switcher in Firefox and the Fox site works fine.Only question is why you
> want to watch Fox and risk brain damage....

I find it more balanced than the Clinton News Network (or any of the other
"network" news channels), which all have a distinct left/liberal bias.


--
"Ubuntu" -- an African word, meaning "Slackware is too hard for me".
The Usenet Improvement Project: http://improve-usenet.org