Browsing google on Linux vs Windows: discrimination?

Here's another log for the fire.

I regularly switch between using Linux (Debian Etch)
and Windows (XP sp2). I mostly browse the web,
alternately trying to plumb the depths of programming
GDI/WinSock2 and Posix. Fun stuff.

I use Firefox2 as my browser on both. I also read fairly
fast as compared to the average person.

Here's the rub:

When I browse google groups with FF2 on Debian,
google routinely stops me with a captcha, as if I am
some sort bot, before I can continue browsing through
the posts.

I don't think I've ever once encountered this problem
browsing w FF2 on XP.

So I've come up with two different theories.

One:
Network modules in Linux perform so much
faster, that, combined with my faster-than-average
reading rate, some sort of automatic security program
on some google firewall/router/whatever interprets
my lower time between page accesses as some sort
or spider/bot/automaton.
I say that because my XP machine is noticably slower
at things like DNS, even when I use OpenDNS
servers. (Properly configured network modules
on Linux with OpenDNS set as nameservers
scream, though.)

Two:
The network access speed difference is largely in
my head, and Google is just wary of any Linux box
that requests so many pages-per-minute, whereas
an XP box is given carte blanche.

Any thoughts, comments,? Does anybody know
what might be going on??

TTFN,
Tarkin

On Mar 22, 1:28 pm, Tarkin <Tarkin...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Here's another log for the fire.
>
> I regularly switch between using Linux (Debian Etch)
> and Windows (XP sp2). I mostly browse the web,
> alternately trying to plumb the depths of programming
> GDI/WinSock2 and Posix. Fun stuff.
>
> I use Firefox2 as my browser on both. I also read fairly
> fast as compared to the average person.
>
> Here's the rub:
>
> When I browse google groups with FF2 on Debian,
> google routinely stops me with a captcha, as if I am
> some sort bot, before I can continue browsing through
> the posts.

I'm posting this though google groups, using FF2 on Mandriva 2008. I
have not seen a captcha.

cfajohnson wrote:
> On Mar 22, 1:28 pm, Tarkin <Tarkin...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Here's another log for the fire.
>>
>> I regularly switch between using Linux (Debian Etch)
>> and Windows (XP sp2). I mostly browse the web,
>> alternately trying to plumb the depths of programming
>> GDI/WinSock2 and Posix. Fun stuff.
>>
>> I use Firefox2 as my browser on both. I also read fairly
>> fast as compared to the average person.
>>
>> Here's the rub:
>>
>> When I browse google groups with FF2 on Debian,
>> google routinely stops me with a captcha, as if I am
>> some sort bot, before I can continue browsing through
>> the posts.
>
> I'm posting this though google groups, using FF2 on Mandriva 2008. I
> have not seen a captcha.

He said that his usage is at a much higher rate than most people would
have, unless they were a bot. Is your usage in that same category?

On Sat, 22 Mar 2008 10:28:33 -0700, Tarkin wrote:

> Here's another log for the fire.
>
> I regularly switch between using Linux (Debian Etch) and Windows (XP
> sp2). I mostly browse the web, alternately trying to plumb the depths of
> programming GDI/WinSock2 and Posix. Fun stuff.
>
> I use Firefox2 as my browser on both. I also read fairly fast as
> compared to the average person.
>
> Here's the rub:
>
> When I browse google groups with FF2 on Debian, google routinely stops
> me with a captcha, as if I am some sort bot, before I can continue
> browsing through the posts.
>
> I don't think I've ever once encountered this problem browsing w FF2 on
> XP.
>
>
[...]

Just a shot in the dark, but maybe it's related to the useragent string ?
Debian doesn't use the "official" Firefox builds from Mozilla, so is it
identifying itself as something else ?

On my Arch box, using their packaged Firefox, it's identified as bonecho
2.x.x, or whatever release is currently installed. On Windows, it's
firefox. I don't have an official firefox build running on Linux to
check, but it would presumeably also be firefox.

I've seen some sites yell at me about unsupported browser, with it left as
bonecho. Maybe google sees that, and get's confused. try either changing
the string, or installing a official Mozilla build + see if the behavior
persists.

--
- Matt -

On Mar 22, 3:19 pm, Matt Payton <mcpsv...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 22 Mar 2008 10:28:33 -0700, Tarkin wrote:
> > Here's another log for the fire.
>
> > I regularly switch between using Linux (Debian Etch) and Windows (XP
> > sp2). I mostly browse the web, alternately trying to plumb the depths of
> > programming GDI/WinSock2 and Posix. Fun stuff.
>
> > I use Firefox2 as my browser on both. I also read fairly fast as
> > compared to the average person.
>
> > Here's the rub:
>
> > When I browse google groups with FF2 on Debian, google routinely stops
> > me with a captcha, as if I am some sort bot, before I can continue
> > browsing through the posts.
>
> > I don't think I've ever once encountered this problem browsing w FF2 on
> > XP.
>
> [...]
>
> Just a shot in the dark, but maybe it's related to the useragent string ?
> Debian doesn't use the "official" Firefox builds from Mozilla, so is it
> identifying itself as something else ?
>
> On my Arch box, using their packaged Firefox, it's identified as bonecho
> 2.x.x, or whatever release is currently installed. On Windows, it's
> firefox. I don't have an official firefox build running on Linux to
> check, but it would presumeably also be firefox.
>
> I've seen some sites yell at me about unsupported browser, with it left as
> bonecho. Maybe google sees that, and get's confused. try either changing
> the string, or installing a official Mozilla build + see if the behavior
> persists.
>
> --
> - Matt -

Nope - aptitude tells me I don't have firefox installed. I got it
straight from Mozilla (but thanks for reminding me to look-
I'm out of date). Besides, Debian rebranded firefox to
Iceweasel, although one can still get FF .debs .

My issues seem to stem from one or more of the following:

A "pissing contest" and/or interop issue between Google and OpenDNS:
http://forums.opendns.com/comments.p...nID=226&page=2
http://blog.opendns.com/2007/05/22/g...urns-the-page/

My wacko home network setup - I have two boxen on a
10/100 SOHO switch, which is fed by a laptop running
XP (sp2/ SpyBot S&D / AVG) with Internet Connection Sharing
enabled - basically, it's a dhcp server, which connects wirelessly
to a Belkin wireless router, and thence to Comcast as my cable ISP.
I can only surmise my request/packets/whatever must look like
spaghetti by the time they get to Google; thus, combined with
my probably higher-than-average mean time-between-requests,
makes me look like a bot. Others 'round teh intarwebs are
having the similar problem, so I'm not alone.

I read up on several complaints from K-12 school network admins,
who were using some sort of combination of proxies, caching,
and filtering software which triggered the same thing. They tracked
this down to some (filtering) software component name 8e6,
but I don't think I have anything like that on any of my boxen.
Links (Google Support groups) on this:
http://tinyurl.com/3dffdk
http://tinyurl.com/ys6sjp

Shoot. I'll just read slower or something. Or try and fix
my network. Fscking Home Despot might have sold me
a bum cable, which is why I have to use my XP box and
ICS to get my boxen at the back of my house connected
to the router at the front.

TTFN,
Tarkin

In article <db5fa391-d1e6-4bca-819b-11e78450a229@z38g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>,
Tarkin <Tarkin000@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mar 22, 3:19 pm, Matt Payton <mcpsv...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > On Sat, 22 Mar 2008 10:28:33 -0700, Tarkin wrote:
> > > Here's another log for the fire.
> >
> > > I regularly switch between using Linux (Debian Etch) and Windows (XP
> > > sp2). I mostly browse the web, alternately trying to plumb the depths of
> > > programming GDI/WinSock2 and Posix. Fun stuff.
> >
> > > I use Firefox2 as my browser on both. I also read fairly fast as
> > > compared to the average person.
> >
> > > Here's the rub:
> >
> > > When I browse google groups with FF2 on Debian, google routinely stops
> > > me with a captcha, as if I am some sort bot, before I can continue
> > > browsing through the posts.
> >
> > > I don't think I've ever once encountered this problem browsing w FF2 on
> > > XP.
> >
> > [...]
> >
> > Just a shot in the dark, but maybe it's related to the useragent string ?
> > Debian doesn't use the "official" Firefox builds from Mozilla, so is it
> > identifying itself as something else ?
> >
> > On my Arch box, using their packaged Firefox, it's identified as bonecho
> > 2.x.x, or whatever release is currently installed. On Windows, it's
> > firefox. I don't have an official firefox build running on Linux to
> > check, but it would presumeably also be firefox.
> >
> > I've seen some sites yell at me about unsupported browser, with it left as
> > bonecho. Maybe google sees that, and get's confused. try either changing
> > the string, or installing a official Mozilla build + see if the behavior
> > persists.
>
> Nope - aptitude tells me I don't have firefox installed. I got it
> straight from Mozilla (but thanks for reminding me to look-
> I'm out of date).

Heh. Synaptic (and presumably all *apt* tools) says I have FF 2.0, when
FF says it's 1.5. Hmm. And I _did_ install it through sywaptic...

But whenever I go to google using tor, it always routes me to a captcha
before it'll show me any search results. And because of tor,
"google.com" could resolve to google{\.com?,}\.$COUNTRY . Maybe the OP
is going through some sort of proxy (transparent or no) that google knows
about and doesn't like?

--
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? [TOFU := text oben,
A: Top-posting. followup unten]
Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet? -- Daniel Jensen

> > On Mar 22, 3:19 pm, Matt Payton <mcpsv...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > Just a shot in the dark, but maybe it's related to the useragent string ?
> > > Debian doesn't use the "official" Firefox builds from Mozilla, so is it
> > > identifying itself as something else ?
>
> > > On my Arch box, using their packaged Firefox, it's identified as bonecho
> > > 2.x.x, or whatever release is currently installed. On Windows, it's
> > > firefox. I don't have an official firefox build running on Linux to
> > > check, but it would presumeably also be firefox.
>
> > > I've seen some sites yell at me about unsupported browser, with it left as
> > > bonecho. Maybe google sees that, and get's confused. try either changing
> > > the string, or installing a official Mozilla build + see if the behavior
> > > persists.
>
> > Nope - aptitude tells me I don't have firefox installed. I got it
> > straight from Mozilla (but thanks for reminding me to look-
> > I'm out of date).
>

On Mar 22, 6:08 pm, ebenZERO...@verizon.net (Hactar) wrote:
> In article <db5fa391-d1e6-4bca-819b-11e78450a...@z38g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>,
>
>
> Heh. Synaptic (and presumably all *apt* tools) says I have FF 2.0, when
> FF says it's 1.5. Hmm. And I _did_ install it through sywaptic...
>
> But whenever I go to google using tor, it always routes me to a captcha
> before it'll show me any search results. And because of tor,
> "google.com" could resolve to google{\.com?,}\.$COUNTRY . Maybe the OP
> is going through some sort of proxy (transparent or no) that google knows
> about and doesn't like?
>

Perhaps I was unclear - I get my FF 'from the
horses mouth', as it were. No FF .deb.

But, after reading Matt's post, I updated FF from
2.0.0.8 to 2.0.0.12, and haven't had the problem
yet. I had auto-updates turned off for my Debian
box :-.

But the other stuff is fascinating. But, no
discrimination. Just a possible bug in FF,
and an obscure one at that, that seems to
be fixed now.

As for the proxy issue, that's what I thought
my whacko network setup was appearing as:
Linux boxen -->
XP laptop w/ ICS -->
Belkin router -->
Comcast cable modem -->
teh intarwebs.

We'll see. SFSG with FF 2.0.0.12, if
it happens again I'll post back with
some more info.

Thanks all and TTFN,
Tarkin
--
BOFH excuse #254: Interference from lunar radiation

> But the other stuff is fascinating. But, no
> discrimination. Just a possible bug in FF,
> and an obscure one at that, that seems to
> be fixed now.
>
> As for the proxy issue, that's what I thought
> my whacko network setup was appearing as:
> Linux boxen -->
> XP laptop w/ ICS -->
> Belkin router -->
> Comcast cable modem -->
> teh intarwebs.
>
> We'll see. SFSG with FF 2.0.0.12, if
> it happens again I'll post back with
> some more info.

Got it again. Following a (relatively) long* thread in
Google groups, ~98* messages, but the topic kept
switching, so I was able to skim through it twice as
fast and - <poof> captcha.

I'm going to have to go with one of my earlier theories-
that the superior network capability of Linux combined
with my higher-than-average reading rate makes me look
like a machine to Google. There are worse things in life.

* Yes I know alt.folklore.computers, and have seen message
counts in excess of 4K (and I'm sure there are higher).

--
Chu, if you could only see what I've seen with your eyes.