bounce bounced

Is there anyway to stop the 'bounce bounced' messages, from getting to me?
It seems some spammers think I should have about 30 users that I do not,
such as webmaster, info, test,..., but the messages keep building up in my
queue, and I have to go in once a week and manually remove them(300-400 at
a week). I do not run some commercial email server, or anything, its just
a small 3 user, family email server.

On Wed, 19 Apr 2006 15:17:06 -0400, inv|s|ble wrote:

> Is there anyway to stop the 'bounce bounced' messages, from getting to me?
> It seems some spammers think I should have about 30 users that I do not,
> such as webmaster, info, test,..., but the messages keep building up in my
> queue, and I have to go in once a week and manually remove them(300-400 at
> a week). I do not run some commercial email server, or anything, its just
> a small 3 user, family email server.

From what Ive been reading from a reply that was emailed to me, most of
the fixes seem to be for 'qmail' alone, without vpopmail, which I happen
to use vpopmail, so are there any vpopmail solutions, or did I just
overlook something in the reply.

inv|s|ble wrote:

> On Wed, 19 Apr 2006 15:17:06 -0400, inv|s|ble wrote:
>
>
>>Is there anyway to stop the 'bounce bounced' messages, from getting to me?
>>It seems some spammers think I should have about 30 users that I do not,
>>such as webmaster, info, test,..., but the messages keep building up in my
>>queue, and I have to go in once a week and manually remove them(300-400 at
>>a week). I do not run some commercial email server, or anything, its just
>>a small 3 user, family email server.
>
>
> From what Ive been reading from a reply that was emailed to me, most of
> the fixes seem to be for 'qmail' alone, without vpopmail, which I happen
> to use vpopmail, so are there any vpopmail solutions, or did I just
> overlook something in the reply.
>

I am not quite sure of the significance.

Vpopmail is an administrtive interface to qmail and performs the final
delivery of a message. qmail does all the other work.
it would also depend on what the emailed solution you were provided.
Since you seem to have omited the suggestion, there is little I can
offer on that.

If you are using procmail or any other type of email filtering, looking
for a Return-Path: <#@> will match when a message is a double bounce.

AK

On Thu, 20 Apr 2006 23:08:33 -0400, AK wrote:

> I am not quite sure of the significance.
>
> Vpopmail is an administrtive interface to qmail and performs the final
> delivery of a message. qmail does all the other work. it would also
> depend on what the emailed solution you were provided. Since you seem to
> have omited the suggestion, there is little I can offer on that.
>
> If you are using procmail or any other type of email filtering, looking
> for a Return-Path: <#@> will match when a message is a double bounce.
>
> AK

I want to do some type of recipient checking, with vpopmail controling the
virtual domains. I know there are simple soulutions to just drop
double bounces like doublebouceto, and doublebouncehost, but I would
rather check if the user is valid then proceed to drop, or deliver.

inv|s|ble wrote:

> On Thu, 20 Apr 2006 23:08:33 -0400, AK wrote:
>
>
>>I am not quite sure of the significance.
>>
>>Vpopmail is an administrtive interface to qmail and performs the final
>>delivery of a message. qmail does all the other work. it would also
>>depend on what the emailed solution you were provided. Since you seem to
>>have omited the suggestion, there is little I can offer on that.
>>
>>If you are using procmail or any other type of email filtering, looking
>>for a Return-Path: <#@> will match when a message is a double bounce.
>>
>>AK
>
>
> I want to do some type of recipient checking, with vpopmail controling the
> virtual domains. I know there are simple soulutions to just drop
> double bounces like doublebouceto, and doublebouncehost, but I would
> rather check if the user is valid then proceed to drop, or deliver.
>
>

Not really sure what you mean. A double bounce occurs when the initial
delivery to the original recipient had a permanent error and where the
original sender is rejected.
There is nothing to check with a double-bounce.

AK

On Wed, 26 Apr 2006 22:49:07 -0400, AK wrote:

> inv|s|ble wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 20 Apr 2006 23:08:33 -0400, AK wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I am not quite sure of the significance.
>>>
>>>Vpopmail is an administrtive interface to qmail and performs the final
>>>delivery of a message. qmail does all the other work. it would also
>>>depend on what the emailed solution you were provided. Since you seem to
>>>have omited the suggestion, there is little I can offer on that.
>>>
>>>If you are using procmail or any other type of email filtering, looking
>>>for a Return-Path: <#@> will match when a message is a double bounce.
>>>
>>>AK
>>
>>
>> I want to do some type of recipient checking, with vpopmail controling
>> the virtual domains. I know there are simple soulutions to just drop
>> double bounces like doublebouceto, and doublebouncehost, but I would
>> rather check if the user is valid then proceed to drop, or deliver.
>>
>>
>>
> Not really sure what you mean. A double bounce occurs when the initial
> delivery to the original recipient had a permanent error and where the
> original sender is rejected.
> There is nothing to check with a double-bounce.
>
> AK

As I stated in the first message. "Is there anyway to stop the 'bounce
bounced' messages, from getting to me? It seems some spammers think I
should have about 30 users that I do not, such as webmaster, info,
test,..., but the messages keep building up in my queue, and I have to go
in once a week and manually remove them(300-400 at a week)."

So there is something to check before hand, to make sure the recipient exist
before accepting the message.


This is the first reply I recieved, for any future reference.
"Sure. First, you can set doublebounceto to something like devnull,
then create ~alias/.qmail-devnull containing nothing but:

#

That will throw all double bounces away unread.
If you're worried about throwing away mail sent to mistyped addresses,
you can instead apply a patch like qmail-realrcptto, which causes
qmail-smtpd to validate addresses before accepting mail to them.

References:

http://lifewithqmail.org/lwq.html#doublebounceto
http://lifewithqmail.org/lwq.html#smtp-reject
"

inv|s|ble wrote:

> On Wed, 26 Apr 2006 22:49:07 -0400, AK wrote:
>
>
>>inv|s|ble wrote:
>>
>>
>>>On Thu, 20 Apr 2006 23:08:33 -0400, AK wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>I am not quite sure of the significance.
>>>>
>>>>Vpopmail is an administrtive interface to qmail and performs the final
>>>>delivery of a message. qmail does all the other work. it would also
>>>>depend on what the emailed solution you were provided. Since you seem to
>>>>have omited the suggestion, there is little I can offer on that.
>>>>
>>>>If you are using procmail or any other type of email filtering, looking
>>>>for a Return-Path: <#@> will match when a message is a double bounce.
>>>>
>>>>AK
>>>
>>>
>>>I want to do some type of recipient checking, with vpopmail controling
>>>the virtual domains. I know there are simple soulutions to just drop
>>>double bounces like doublebouceto, and doublebouncehost, but I would
>>>rather check if the user is valid then proceed to drop, or deliver.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Not really sure what you mean. A double bounce occurs when the initial
>>delivery to the original recipient had a permanent error and where the
>>original sender is rejected.
>>There is nothing to check with a double-bounce.
>>
>>AK
>
>
> As I stated in the first message. "Is there anyway to stop the 'bounce
> bounced' messages, from getting to me? It seems some spammers think I
> should have about 30 users that I do not, such as webmaster, info,
> test,..., but the messages keep building up in my queue, and I have to go
> in once a week and manually remove them(300-400 at a week)."
>
> So there is something to check before hand, to make sure the recipient exist
> before accepting the message.
>
>
> This is the first reply I recieved, for any future reference.
> "Sure. First, you can set doublebounceto to something like devnull,
> then create ~alias/.qmail-devnull containing nothing but:
>
> #
>
> That will throw all double bounces away unread.
> If you're worried about throwing away mail sent to mistyped addresses,
> you can instead apply a patch like qmail-realrcptto, which causes
> qmail-smtpd to validate addresses before accepting mail to them.
>
> References:
>
> http://lifewithqmail.org/lwq.html#doublebounceto
> http://lifewithqmail.org/lwq.html#smtp-reject
> "
>

To stop the double bounce function you would have to modify the delivery
mechanism in qmail and the error handling therein.

The advice you received in reference to using the realrcptto patch would
significantly limit the number of double bounces because a message to a
nonexistent recipient will not be accepted at the SMTP level such that
there will not be a message to bounce on your server.

Caution with realrcptto since it might not cover the setup of your
server. Make sure realrcptto mechanism can fully reference all the
"valid" email addresses on your server

AK

On Thu, 27 Apr 2006 07:55:37 -0400, AK wrote:

> To stop the double bounce function you would have to modify the delivery
> mechanism in qmail and the error handling therein.
>
> The advice you received in reference to using the realrcptto patch would
> significantly limit the number of double bounces because a message to a
> nonexistent recipient will not be accepted at the SMTP level such that
> there will not be a message to bounce on your server.
>
> Caution with realrcptto since it might not cover the setup of your server.
> Make sure realrcptto mechanism can fully reference all the "valid" email
> addresses on your server
>
> AK


That is why I asked if there was a way that worked with vpopmail. AK, you
seem to keep rewording my questions, and turning them into comments. I
have read the limitations of the various factors, and none seem to say
that they will work with vpopmail, just a handful say they will not. I
know these features are built into other MTAs such as postfix, but I do
not want to switch MTAs if possible.

inv|s|ble wrote:
> On Thu, 27 Apr 2006 07:55:37 -0400, AK wrote:
>
>
>>To stop the double bounce function you would have to modify the delivery
>>mechanism in qmail and the error handling therein.
>>
>>The advice you received in reference to using the realrcptto patch would
>>significantly limit the number of double bounces because a message to a
>>nonexistent recipient will not be accepted at the SMTP level such that
>>there will not be a message to bounce on your server.
>>
>>Caution with realrcptto since it might not cover the setup of your server.
>> Make sure realrcptto mechanism can fully reference all the "valid" email
>>addresses on your server
>>
>>AK
>
>
>
> That is why I asked if there was a way that worked with vpopmail. AK, you
> seem to keep rewording my questions, and turning them into comments. I
> have read the limitations of the various factors, and none seem to say
> that they will work with vpopmail, just a handful say they will not. I
> know these features are built into other MTAs such as postfix, but I do
> not want to switch MTAs if possible.

If you can on a normal basis export the list of valid email addresses in
you vpopmail setup into a format that realrcptto can handle, your issue
would be resolved.

When administering a mail server, it is administrator's decision on
whether or not to receive the Double Bounce to messages.
There are other qmail-smtpd replcements out there (this will only
replace the incoming email handling functionality), but none will
include all the requirements you might have. You would need to pick
one or several approaches and taylor the configuration/s to your needs.

If you can export the list of the valid email addresses on your system
(vpopmail), you could also minimally modify qmail-smtpd to query a CDB
with the list of the valid email addresses prior to accepting a message
(similar to the mechanism used to query the morercpthosts CDB).

AK